THE following dialogue between Dr. Pietus and Dr. Fastidious, occurred in a social company, in a parlor, and, thinking it might be profitable to some brethren, and even churches, we have concluded to publish it entire, without recommending or condemning it; therefore, we let it speak for itself:
Dr. Fastidious.—I have, for some time, desired an opportunity to say a few words, though confidentially to you, Dr. Pietus, touching our preacher. I think he is not a suitable man, for such a prominent place as this. You know that we frequently have men of distinction here. Besides, our city is one of prominence, and we ought to have a man of distinction.
Dr. Pietus.—I think our preacher is a good man, Doctor, a sound man, and a man of great moral worth. I thought he gave us one of the best exhortations at the prayer-meeting, on last Wednesday night, I ever heard. Did you not think so?
Dr. F.—I was not there. He is so uninteresting that I but rarely go to hear him. I know that he is a good man, and sound enough. But then, he is a very common man, and not sufficiently showy and eloquent for us. We need a first-class preacher in a city like this; a man who can draw out an audience.
Dr. P.—I never think of such a thing as a preacher to draw Christians out to meeting. The Lord draws me out to meeting. He has promised to be there, and I have never found his promise to fail. I am never disappointed, for I go to meeting believing that he will be there, and I always find him. But those who only go because they love some preacher, frequently get disappointed; for the preacher being a fallible creature, often fails to attend. But I do think our preacher is a good preacher. I do not know where we could get a better man.
Dr. F.—We need a man of distinction and notoriety, who will attract attention, and draw out an audience. I would then go out and try to do something. But, I have no faith in doing anything, till we have a more attractive preacher.
Dr. P.—My dear sir, we will never get a preacher who can draw out an audience, unless we draw too. As much depends upon a church in drawing out an audience as the preacher. No preacher can draw out an audience unless the church does its part. We must do our part as a church, or no preacher in the world can do us any good. I still think our present preacher has done about as much for us, as any man could have done under the circumstances. It is not a different kind of preacher we need, but a different kind of a church. We need members that will attend the public worship, sing, pray, exhort, and stand at their post. In one word, we need a church that will stand by the preacher, encourage, sustain him, and hold up his hands.
Dr. F.—I never saw such a man as you are. You can be satisfied with any kind of preaching. I never saw you present when any man preached, when you did not appear satisfied, no matter how bungling he was.
Dr. P.—I think but little about preachers, have fewer favorites, and more rarely speak in praise or complaint of preachers, than almost any man you can find. I am not thinking of the messenger, but of the message.
Dr. F.—I can not bear a prosing, stammering and dry preacher. I have not heard our preacher present anything new in three months. I like to learn something when I go to hear preaching.
Dr. P.—When were you at meeting last? I do not recollect seeing you for some three months in the meeting house.
Dr. F.—I have been pressed with—I have not been very well—the preaching has not suited me, and there are many in the church that should have been excluded long since.
Dr. P.—No wonder you have heard nothing new from our brother; for you have not heard him at all. If his preaching had been the best in the world, it would have done you no good, while you did not hear it. I will tell you, my dear brother, how to make preaching better to us: Read the Scriptures every day; pray night and morning; talk to every one you meet about religion, and your heart will be full of the theme. You will then like to hear any man who can preach at all. Attend all the meetings, participate in the songs, prayers, exhortations and all the other parts of public worship, and you will then be interested in all that you hear from good men.
Dr. F.—Your notions of preaching will not do. Our city is one of intelligence. This community, you must recollect, is highly enlightened, and we must have a man here that keeps pace with the age. We frequently have statesmen, lawyers, physicians and men of the first rank in attendance, and it is useless to think of interesting these with any common talents. We must have a man of taste, refinement, and highly accomplished.
Dr. P.—When did our Lord ever try to arrest the attention of the elite of this world by show, by mere human polish and flourish? Never, never, Doctor, as you certainly know. Are you not aware, my dear sir, that the wisdom of God is not in this vain and worldly thing that you speak of? Sensible people, those truly enlightened and great, can understand the gospel, appreciate and receive it, when it is simplified and made appreciable to the masses of the people. Not only so, doctor, but the class you aim to please, though enlightened in the things of the world, and accomplished, they are more unenlightened in the things of the kingdom of God, than many that you never think of pleasing. I am for a preacher that will try to please the Lord, whether he pleases your distinguished men or not.
Dr. F.—We have had some of the best speakers in the world here, and the truth is, the people here know what good talent is, and they will not be satisfied with ordinary men. The people here have been well taught. No man can attract attention here unless he is a superior man.
Dr. P.—That the people here have heard some men of good preaching talent, is true; but that they are well-read and well taught in christianity, is far from true. That they understand Jesus or the apostles well, is far from true. Many perfectly country places and rural districts contain far more gospel light than may be found in the bounds of our congregation. We presume that we are wise, while many plain men from the country are astonished when they converse with us, that we are so ignorant. To be plain with you, my dear brother, I know of no place where there is, at this time, more need of plain, old-fashioned, New Testament preaching than here. It is not worldly show that we need; we have that now in abundance. We need the simple teachings of Jesus, solemnly and affectionately impressed upon our hearts, by some good man who loves us and will try to save us. In the place of being inflated with the conceit that we are well taught, far advanced and highly elevated in christian attainments, so that no man except one of the most exalted accomplishments can teach us, we should be sensible of what is the true state of the case, viz: That almost any plain and good man who preaches among us, can teach us many useful lessons that we do not know.
Dr. F.—I can not agree with you. I have had my face burn more than once, in listening to some ignorant brother, blundering and trying to preach, who evidently did not understand his mother tongue, and that, too, in the presence of some distinguished persons. I can never countenance such a state of things.
Dr. P.—Doctor, I had rather hear some good man, who can not speak his mother tongue correctly, tell the plain story of the cross of Christ, in the love of Jesus, and in the spirit and power of a holy man of God, a thousand times, than to listen to one of your showy men, who can preach a beautiful sermon without any Jesus, Holy Spirit, love of God, or anything else, but the man himself in it. I desire preaching that will convert men to Jesus—to christianity and not to men. The converts will then love Jesus, meet and worship him and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. We do not want a man here to worship him, but to preach Jesus to us and teach us to worship Him.
Dr. F.—With your views of the subject, we shall never do any good. We shall never draw out an audience, nor accomplish anything. I am in favor of procuring a man at a salary of $2,000 or $2,500, that will command the respect of our city. Then we shall do some good. I am willing to give liberally when such an arrangement can be made, but I do not think our preacher is doing any good, and shall not give anything for his support.
Dr. P.—I am sorry to hear you speak so. Nothing, in my estimation could be more disastrous to us. This would consume about all we could possibly raise, so that we could not raise a dollar for missions, for colleges, the poor or anything only to pay a man to preach to us. At this rate our large congregation would only just be able to support itself and bear its own weight! Who is to convert the world at this rate! If we can not do anything more than sustain ourselves who are to support missions, build colleges and take care of the poor? If you had such a preacher as you want, he would have to do everything himself, or you would not be satisfied. Not a brother in the church would ever pray, exhort, or do anything that would call forth a gift, or develop any talents that might be among our numbers. Hence in all these city churches where some great man is the center of attraction, they rarely ever bring forward any young preachers, or develop any new talent. They simply monopolize talent brought out and developed some place else. I am in favor of preachers of ability, not only in our city churches, but as far as possible, in all the churches. But the way must be opened among us for the development of talent in the church. Our pride must not despise incipient efforts—plain and humble men, nor human weakness. It is in all men more or less, though not always developed in the same form.
Dr. F.—I think if we had such a preacher as I wish, we would draw out an audience, convert many people and greatly extend the cause in one year.
Dr. P.—No, Doctor, that would not be the case. The preacher we have is just as good as any man we can get. He is a man of unquestionable talents and piety and if we stand by him, aid him and encourage him, thus showing to the world that we respect him, those without will also respect him and he will succeed. If we had the most gifted man on the continent and the members of the church would treat him as they have done our present preacher he would do nothing. By our absenting ourselves, we virtually say, what you have in so many words said, that our preacher can do no good here. When the members of the church thus speak and act, neither a man nor an angel can do any thing; and, if I were the preacher, I would not stay a moment with brethren who would thus treat me. I would go where I could be appreciated. Doctor, come to meeting and let us make one good effort and see if we can not bring our church out. Let us produce a change in the church, and then probably our preacher will do well enough. I think we need a change in the church more than in the preacher, or preaching.