Light from the spirit world / The pilgrimage of Thomas Paine and others to the seventh circle in the spirit world

When we reached the castle, there was great wonder and astonishment, that the deacon should have departed from it. I heard the chief say, “I have been suspicious of him ever since the conversation between the centurion and the strangers through the port holes. I saw,” said he, “that he listened quite too attentively to the conversation; for it is not possible for any mind to resist the arguments which that circle brings. But alas! there is great danger of their sentiments; there is such a sweetness in their conversation, that it is no wonder that they draw minds away from the truth.”

“Wouldst thou taste that sweetness?” said the deacon.

C. I would not jeopardize the eternal interests of my soul.

D. Then thou shouldst abandon that castle, as I have done.

C. Art thou my judge?

D. I judge no mind, but I know thy condition.

C. My condition, I hope, is well.

D. Whereon doth thy hope rest?

C. On the rock of eternal truth.

D. What is truth?

C. The truth is not what thou wouldst teach in thy apostacy.

I said, “Wilt thou answer the question? We wish to know what is truth.”

C. Dost thou wish to relieve thy new convert?

T. I wish thee to tell us, if thou canst, what is truth?

C. I will not say, that works are the truths of God.

T. Wilt thou say, that they are not the truths of God?

C. Yea.

T. Then, what is nature, but the work of God?

C. Nature is a work of God.

T. Is nature a true work of God?

C. It is.

T. Then the true work of God is nature, and as thou sayest it is a true work, it is a truth of God. That which is true, is a truth; and that which is false, is not true. The truth of nature is a work of God. The wisdom of nature is the wisdom of God.

C. But there is a wisdom which is not of nature.

T. Wilt thou teach me that wisdom?

C. It is the wisdom of the Bible.

T. What wisdom is not of nature?

C. The Bible.

T. The Bible is not wisdom, but a revelation of wisdom.

C. The Bible is full of wisdom.

T. The Bible is full of the wisdom of nature, which is God’s work.

C. The Bible teaches us wisdom.

T. It reveals wisdom.

C. The Bible reveals what nature does not.

T. What wisdom does it reveal, which nature does not?

C. It reveals a resurrection of mind from the rudimental to a superior condition.

T. Does not nature do the same?

C. Not to minds in the rudimental state.

T. It reveals the resurrection of many things.

C. What?

T. The flower, the reptile, and the insect.

C. But it does not reveal the resurrection of minds.

T. It may do so. It has revealed it to us, and we may reveal it to minds in the body. Is not that nature which gave the Bible?

C. In one sense it is.

T. Is it not in every sense?

C. Philosophically, mind and spirit are one thing; but mind is not the cause of nature without God.

T. Truly. Mind is the natural work of God, and mind has revealed the wisdom of God, as it has been discovered. This revelation is the Bible, which discloses the undiscovered wisdom of God, by minds who have learned it by their investigation of nature, which is God’s work.

C. That is true.

T. Thou wilt see, then, that nature is true to God; and when a thing is true to him who made it, it can never be untrue. Even so, is that true to thee which is adapted to thy welfare. But that which is adapted to thy welfare, may not be adapted to the welfare of all minds.

C. Thou makest truth change with the condition of mind, then.

T. Not so. I would say, that conditions change. When the conditions of mind change, that which was true in one relation, may be false in another, because a thing, not changing with the condition of the mind, can not be true to it in all conditions. Thou art satisfied within these walls. To thee, they are necessary and true, being adapted to thy condition of developed wisdom; but thou wilt not say, that such confinement would be true to my happiness, or that my condition would admit of happiness to me therein. When thy wisdom shall be increased, the things which are true to thee now, will give thee no satisfaction, because they will not be adapted to thy condition.

C. Then, what is true to me now, will be false when my wisdom shall be increased.

T. That which is true to thy condition will be eternally true to that condition; but it will not be true to a different condition. Thou wilt remember, that thou must be the judge of all things presented for thy consideration. Laws are eternal; but a knowledge of all the laws of God must be forever finite. What knowledge thou hast of those laws, is true to thee, but greater knowledge will show thee, that what thou regardest as true to thee, will soon not be so regarded; because thy wisdom will see its falsity. And what thy judgment receives as true, is true to thee; and what thy wisdom decides is not true, that thou wilt reject as false. Hence, truth being determined by thy wisdom, must be true to thy wisdom. It can not be true to thee, contrary to thy wisdom; because that which thy mind receives contrary to thy wisdom, is false to thy good, and destructive to thy enjoyment.

C. Thou reasonest well; but the Bible is reasonable, and thou shouldst not set up thy reason contrary thereto.

T. The Bible is one thing, and thy views another. The wisdom of thy interpretation is not reasonable to me.

C. What interpretation of the Bible is reasonable?

T. Thou wilt not say, that a mind can impart that which it does not understand.

C. What then?

T. This will show thee, that what minds have not understood, they have attempted to interpret, because what is understood, does not need an interpretation. When a work is so written as to be understood by those who read, it will not need an interpretation, and when it is not so written, it is defective.

C. Then, thou sayest the Bible is defective.

T. I say, that if an interpretation be necessary to understand it, it is defective; and, when minds solicit an interpretation thereof, they admit the defect. If there were no defects, why ask for an interpretation?

C. I want what will make it plain and clear.

T. What will supply some defect, I conclude.

C. That will be a saying what infidels allege.

T. Is it not doing what infidels say, when thou askest an interpretation? They tell thee, that wrongs are in the Bible, and thou wilt not say, that the Bible is right without an interpretation. So, the interpreters of the Bible and infidels are agreed, that the Bible is not right without an interpretation?

C. That is apparently thy conclusion, but it is a new idea to me.

T. The idea will be more than apparent, when thou shalt divest thy mind of thy doubts. Thou hast more skepticism than is consistent with thy good.

C. This is the first time I was ever accused of skepticism.

T. Thy friends have been like thee, and thou wouldst not listen to those unlike thee. When thou wouldst know thy wrongs and errors, thou wilt not expect thy willing companions, whom thou lovest because they flatter thee, and thou payest them, for their flattery, will tell thee what will occasion thy displeasure.

C. I want no wrong, nor error.

T. Thou wilt not forsake thy wrongs or errors, until thou art instructed to see them; and thou art not prepared to forsake when wisdom reveals them to thee.

C. I will forsake them when I see them.

T. When may I expect thou wilt see them?

C. I wish to see now.

T. When I show thee, wilt thou forsake?

C. I will.

T. Then listen to the counsel and experience of the deacon. He will aid thee to see what is wrong, in thy mind.

C. I am prepared to hear and judge for myself.

D. Thou wilt now call thy friends together, that they also may hear and judge.

C. I wish no one present at this interview, but the present company.

D. What is good for thee, will be good to those like thee.

C. But I do not wish my friends to know that I am considering a new doctrine. They will rebuke me for my weakness. Thou canst say what thou desirest, and, if I am satisfied, I will call them together.

D. Thy wisdom is wrong.

C. Wherein?

D. In that thou art not willing thy friends should hear what thou permitest thyself. What is good for thee is good for them.

C. What is good for them to hear, I would have them hear, but I wish to know first that what thou desirest me to hear is good; and when I know it, I will not object to the hearing of all.

D. Thou wilt not refuse to hear thyself without knowing what thou mayest hear. Why dost thou do what thou wishest others not to do?

C. It will be unwise for me to permit a doctrine to be inculcated among minds, who are likely to be carried away with new things. They are aided only in the right way by me; I would not have them taught wrong.

D. Thou wilt suffer thyself to be taught right.

C. Yea; and also my friends.

D. Then thou mayest call them together.

C. How am I to know that thy instruction is right?

D. When thou hearest it, thou canst judge, and so can thy friends.

C. But I do not choose to have them hear it, until I can judge.

D. And yet thou art willing to hear for thyself. Why shouldst thou do what thou refusest to thy friends?

C. Because what I hear will not injure them, unless they hear.

D. Then thou hast more confidence in thyself than in thy brethren. Are they not like thee?

C. They are like me, in faith; but I would not trust their judgment, when thy words of honey are offered to them.

D. And yet thou canst trust thy own.

C. Whose should I trust?

D. Whom should thy friends trust? Thou requirest them to trust in thee. Why shouldst thou require them to trust in thee when thou refusest to trust in thy friends? We have not wronged thee, nor will thy friends be wronged by us.

C. Thou mayest wait. I will counsel with the senior of this castle.

When we saw what he wanted, we summoned the circle in the temple by a certain sound of the trumpet. They came. On sounding the trumpet, the hosts of the castle came also. It was a clear, still evening, and when they saw our implements of war, they formed in a circle near the walls, and demanded the object of our mission.

The Commander of the temple replied, “Be not alarmed. What thou hast is thine, and we have no need of what is thy own. We are here not to take away what thou hast, but to give thee more abundantly than thou hast reason to expect. Thou wilt soon see the object of our mission; and, when thou seest, thou wilt not consider us thy enemies, but friends. We see thy arms are defective; and, if thou wouldst fight, the weapons we bring are at thy disposal. Advance and receive, and, when thou receivest, use them as thy wisdom shall direct thee.”

Sen. Then thou surrenderest thy command to our power?

Com. We surrender what thou desirest—our weapons of hostility. Come now and receive, that thou mayest know we are not thy enemies.

S. Thou wilt keep thy own. We do not fight with friends.

C. Why shouldst thou fight with enemies?

S. Because they are not friends.

C. Will thy fighting make them friends?

S. It will make them know that they are not our masters.

C. How will it teach them this?

S. Because they will become our servants. Our victory over them will teach them this lesson.

C. It will teach them another lesson also.

S. What lesson?

C. It will teach them, that thy victory may be reversed, and that thou mayest become their servants. What thou doest, others may do. Thou wilt see, that thy power may become the power of those whom thou mayest oppress. When wilt thou understand, that thy warfare is wrong to thee, and to those whom thou mayest injure?

S. When our enemies become our friends.

C. Very true. And wouldst thou desire all minds to become thy friends?

S. We would desire peace, but not on dishonorable terms.

C. Thou wilt not say, peace is dishonorable, on any terms.

S. I will say, when minds are asked to surrender their rights as a condition to peace, it is dishonorable.

C. Dishonorable to whom?

S. It is dishonorable to him who surrenders.

C. Is it dishonorable to give?

S. When the gift is demanded, as a condition of peace.

C. When thou askest for rain and sunshine, as a condition of thy prosperity and peace, is it dishonorable for thy Friend, who controlest the seasons, to give thee what thou askest?

S. Nay; because he is not impoverished by his gifts.

C. Thou wilt not say, it is dishonorable for thy friends to offer thee weapons of war, when they have no others?

S. It is not, when we are not thy enemies.

C. Thou wilt say, “when we are thy friends.”

S. Yea.

C. How wouldst thou make thy enemies thy friends?

S. By doing, as I would that they should do to me.

C. Wouldst thou be refused, when thou askest what thou desirest?

S. Nay.

C. When thou desirest peace, wouldst thou refuse it, because thy enemy wanted what was thine, as a condition?

S. I would not submit to unreasonable demands.

C. What wouldst thou do?

S. I would refuse the condition.

C. Wouldst thou refuse the condition, if the condition was better for thee and thy friends, than to fight?

S. I would not submit to any unjust demands.

C. Wouldst thou not submit to an unjust demand, rather than to demand what is unjust?

S. I would not demand what is unjust.

C. Dost thou not demand peace, and is not that just?

S. Yea.

C. Then, when thou refusest what thy enemy asks, as a condition of peace, dost thou not refuse peace, and demand war. The condition is what makes peace, and when thou refusest that, thou desirest what is worse. Is it honorable to choose the greatest evil?

S. The greatest evil is not war.

C. What is greater?

S. The evil of injustice.

C. It is even so. But is not war unjust?

S. Not when waged in a righteous cause.

C. What cause is righteous, which is unjust?

S. That which maintains rights. Rights are just, and measures, which will secure and perpetuate those rights, are just.

C. Is war a right?

S. War is not right, when rights are not sought by it.

C. How can rights be sought and obtained by wrongs?

S. War is not wrong, when rights are secured by it.

C. When rights are secured by wrongs, when war secures peace, when nature is concordant with discord, thy rights will disappear. No mind will then have any rights, because rights will be valueless. When war becomes right, and right becomes war, the rights of nature will be disregarded. Confusion will be right, and peace become wrong. Such is the character of thy rights, when judged by the harmonious law of nature. Thou sayest, war is right to secure rights. What right wilt thou secure by war?

S. Those rights which are the inherent property of every mind.

C. And what is the inherent property of every mind?

S. The right to say and to do, as my own conscience approves.

C. Will thy conscience do evil, that good may come?

S. Nay.

C. Is war an evil?

S. It is.

C. Wouldst thou go to war, which thou sayest is an evil, that good may come?

S. It will not be evil, when good comes from it.

C. Wilt thou show us what good can come from evil? Doth war do those engaged in it good?

S. If it secure to them a right, the right is good.

C. The right will not go to war.

S. The right will go to war when it is right.

C. Wilt thou show us, when it is right to do evil, that good may come from it. Wilt thou show us how good can come from evil, or evil from good?

S. The good, which comes from the evil of war, is the maintenance of rights.

C. What rights?

S. The rights which are in controversy.

C. What rights in controversy have ever been secured by war?

S. The rights of freedom.

C. When?

S. The rudimental condition has secured these rights.

C. When?

S. When the American colonies were opposed by the mother country.

C. What rights did those colonies secure by war?

S. The rights of freedom.

C. Those rights were not secured by war.

S. Well, they were the results of war.

C. Nay; but of peace. When peace was ratified, the colonies were no longer engaged in war. Thou seest not that war gave to any mind a right, because it gave different things.

S. But was not that war justifiable?

C. How so?

S. To overcome the oppression of the mother country.

C. Canst thou make one wrong justify another?

S. No; but I see no wrong in that which results in good.

C. Thou hast not shown that wrong ever did, or ever will, result in good.

S. But I will show, that the American colonies would never have been free without it.

C. Thou mayest say, that they are not free with it.

S. How dost thou mean? Are they not free from the mother country?

C. How can a people be free, who are dependent? Are not the States as dependent now as ever on the mother country? Whence cometh her luxuries, which thou seest crossing the Atlantic? Whence comest her language, her customs, her religion, her glory in war, and her manufactured articles which her people import? Are these signs of freedom, or of dependence?

S. But they are free to enact their own laws, and choose their own rulers?

C. They are free to choose as the majority may elect. I would say a majority of such as are not proscribed by law from choosing their own rulers. But thou seest more than one half of those who are ruled by law, who have no choice in the election of their rulers, and very many, who have a secured right to elect, do not exercise it.

S. That is their own fault.

C. Whose fault?

S. The fault of those who are governed.

C. Why is it their fault?

S. Because they should assert their rights.

C. What rights?

S. The rights which others exercise.

C. What rights do others exercise?

S. The rights to elect minds to make laws, and govern them.

C. Thou wilt see who will object to their assertion.

S. I see who will not object.

C. Who?

S. The free and independent.

C. Who are they?

S. Those who dare speak the truth, and act without fear.

C. And who are they?

S. They are not many, I see.

C. Then how are the few to control the many?

S. I would not make war against them.

C. What wouldst thou do?

S. I would instruct them in the great principles of natural justice.

C. Thou hast well said. When thou seest thy enemy come against thee to wrong thee of thy rights, instruct him in the great principles of natural justice, and when thou hast instructed him, he will not trespass against thee. We saw thee afraid of thy rights; but thou knowest that, when, we offered thee our weapons, thou didst refuse, because thou hadst no enemy to fight. So, when thy enemies make war on thee, go, and meet them, and say unto them, we are friends, take our weapons; and they will say unto thee, we have no use for them, for we are brethren.

S. The wisdom of my companions agrees with me, that thy doctrine would be well, if all would practice it. But thou seest that such is the ignorance of some minds, that compulsory measures must be resorted to, in order to restrain their acts of injustice.

C. Compulsory measures are dangerous weapons. When a mind is restrained, it is not free; and when it is not free, it hates the oppressor. That which it hates, it seeks an opportunity to overcome, and circumstances may so change as to gratify its wish. The time will come when war will be no more; but it never will come so long as compulsory measures are employed to restrain minds. I have seen war. I have seen the causes of war. I never saw a cause of war equal in wrong to the war. No cause, which has hitherto produced war, has ever been so wretched for minds to bear, as the evils of war. What are a few insults, or wrongs of dishonor, when compared to the wretchedness of whole nations, engaged in mortal combat? Would not the wrongs of injury be abated by the forgiveness of thy Savior? Would he wound to redress his wounds? Why did he not call the legions of heaven to fight with the legions of earth? When thou shalt have full confidence in the righteousness of his conduct, and when thou shalt follow his example, thy honor will not tarnish, though thou forgivest thy enemy even seventy times seven. And when thou shalt do the works of thy Master, the cause of thy Master will be honored in thee.

S. Thy wisdom will not allow sincere minds to call themselves Christians, because they would defend their own rights.

C. Thou hast no right to wrong thy neighbor, even though he may be thy enemy. Thou hast no right to do wrong. War is a wrong. It is an evil, as thou hast said. Thy enemy will not be made thy friend by thy wrong; neither can thy mind be satisfied with the wretchedness of thy wrong. It is not war which bears the name in the rudimental sphere, which we have undertaken to overcome in our visit to this castle. We have not come here to do away with that which does not exist among thy companions, but to instruct them in principles of everlasting peace to thy mind. Thou hast not yet forgotten the wrongs of thy education, and those wrongs have made thee suspicious of thy friends. Thou wouldst now repel words and facts which will be of more value to thee than many rubies. If thou wouldst heed our advice, we would say to thee, and thy companions with thee, come with us, and we will do thee good.

S. Thou mayest stay with us.

C. We have been where thou art, but now we have a more beautiful mansion, where the pure current of life rolls down from the throne of mercy, and all who will, may come and drink of the water of life freely. Thou wilt not return to this castle to tarry, when thou shalt participate in the blessedness we share. We are now ready to receive thy reply.

S. I should be willing to try the experiment, if my companions would go with me.

C. Thy companions will rejoice at the opportunity. I see they are willing and hoping that thy answer will be yea.

S. Thou seest, then, that I will go.

C. Thou hast wisely answered. Thy companions will go where they wish, and thou wilt consult their wish. When thou findest one who will do wrong to obtain a right, pass on; and when thou findest one who will only do right to obtain a right, and who will sacrifice his own for another’s good, thou wilt write the name in the Lamb’s book of life, which thou wilt take with thee; and the scribe whom we send with thee. When thou returnest, report thy success.

He went with the scribe. On their return, they brought in the book the names of four and twenty elders, and an hundred and forty and four thousand, who came with them, saying, “Blessed is he who hath part in the first resurrection; for lo! these many years have we sought and not found; but now the light shineth, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.”

S. I have brought with me a hundred and forty and four thousand, who have resolved to worship no more in this castle, but go with thy companions where thou wouldst lead; albeit, where reigns the principles thou hast taught unto us. Thou wilt see these four and twenty elders, who came to thy hearing, have joined the great congregation, and are ready to live in peace, as thou hast taught.

C. Thou wilt form a circle that I may address them when we reach the arch-way of the temple, whither thou goest, I have a few words to say to them, which will need be required before they enter therein.

S. We will obey thy commands.

The new song was now sung, for the year of Jubilee had come to these emancipated minds. They sang in the spirit, and with the understanding, the words painted in gold colors on my banner. The great congregation then moved straightway for the temple. On nearing the arch-way, a circle was formed, and the Commander addressed them as follows:

“Friends: Thou wilt suffer no more from the ills to which thou hast been exposed in thy pilgrimage. Thou hast not known thy misfortune, because thou hast verily been unable to compare thy condition with that which thou art now prepared to realize. Thou hast hitherto considered thy own wisdom above the wisdom of thy superiors; but when thou seest what remains for thee, thou wilt know thy condition was wretched, when compared with it. Before thou enterest this temple, each mind will cast his crown into the treasury of reform, and when thou seest the standard enter the arch-way, thou wilt follow in the order of thy conductors, and receive such lessons as thy need may require from thy seniors. Be wise not in thy own conceit, for there are none too wise to unlearn his wrongs, nor too good to neglect improvement, save Him whom we serve. Let no wrong follow this company into these courts, for shame will hide no guilt from the inspection of this circle.” The whole company were conducted in order, and received the lessons which appertained to their progress, and which have been recited in another place.