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The Mormon Doctrine of Deity: The Roberts-Van Der Donckt Discussion / To which is added a discourse, Jesus Christ, the revelation of God; also a collection of authoritative Mormon utterances on the being and nature of God cover

The Mormon Doctrine of Deity: The Roberts-Van Der Donckt Discussion / To which is added a discourse, Jesus Christ, the revelation of God; also a collection of authoritative Mormon utterances on the being and nature of God

Chapter 72: I.
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About This Book

A series of essays and exchanges presents and defends a Latter-day Saint account of God's nature, arguing for an embodied, anthropomorphic deity, the distinct personhood of Father and Son, a plurality of gods, and the eventual exaltation of mankind. A Catholic critic advances classical philosophical claims for divine simplicity, spirituality, and unity and denies human deification. The author replies point-by-point, employing scriptural citations, theological argument, and appeals to Christ as the revelation of God. The volume concludes with collected authoritative passages from scripture and church leaders to illustrate and substantiate the asserted doctrine.

[Footnote A: Doc. and Cov. Sec. 121:32.]

Again, in speaking of those who fall short of complete obedience to the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and describing their limitations the Prophet says:

From henceforth they are not Gods, but are angels of God, forever and ever.[A]

[Footnote A: Doc. and Cov. Sec. 132:17.]

On the other hand he declares that all those who obey the fullness of the gospel—

Shall pass by the angels, and the Gods, * * * to their exaltation and glory in all things. * * * Then shall they be Gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be Gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.[A]

[Footnote A: Doc. and Cov. Sec. 132:19, 20.]

Thus the revelations of God to the Church from the earliest times, and now collected in the Doctrine and Covenants, teach that men and Gods are identical in race, and that there is a plurality of Gods.

THE "MORMON" DOCTRINE OF DEITY AS SET FORTH IN THE DISCOURSES OF THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH AND EARLY CHURCH PUBLICATIONS.

From the King Follett Sermon, April 7, 1844.[A]

[Footnote A: Millenial Star, vol. xxiii, p. 245 et seq.]

It is necessary for us to have an understanding of God himself in the beginning.

* * * *

There are but a very few beings in the world who understand rightly the character of God. The great majority of mankind do not comprehend anything, either that which is past, or that which is to come, as respects their relationship to God.

* * * *

If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves.

* * * *

What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth. * * * God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the vail was rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit; and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instructions from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.

* * * *

It is necessary we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and will take away the vail, so that you may see. * * * It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did.

* * * *

The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, "As the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power"—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life, as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible.[A]

* * * *

[Footnote A: The argument here made by the Prophet is very much strengthened by the following passage: "The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do; for what things soever he [the Father] doeth, these also the Son doeth likewise" (St. John 5:19).

Here, then, is eternal life: to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you—namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.

* * * *

How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child or dear relative, to know that although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings, in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more; but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? [i. e., to be joint heirs with Jesus Christ]. To inherit the same power, the same glory, and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much has been said.

* * * *

When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the vail before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world: it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation, even beyond the grave.

* * * *

I shall comment on the very first Hebrew word in the Bible; I will make a comment on the very first sentence of the history of the creation in the Bible. Berosheit: I want to analyze the word. Baith—in, by, through, etc. Rosh—the head. Sheit—grammatical termination. When the inspired man wrote it, he did not put the bath there. A Jew, without any authority, added the word: he thought it too bad to begin to talk about the head! It read at first, "The head one of the Gods brought forth the Gods." That is the true meaning of the words. Baurau signifies to bring forth. If you do not believe it, you do not believe the learned man of God. * * * Thus the head God brought forth the Gods in the grand council. * * * The head God called together the Gods, and sat in grand council to bring forth the world. The grand Councilors sat at the head in yonder heavens, and contemplated the creation of the worlds which were created at that time. * * * In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods, and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.

* * * *

From the Discourse of June 16, 1844.[A]

[Footnote A: Mill. Star Vol. 24, p. 108, et seq.

The Prophet's text was: "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father: to him be glory and dominion forever and ever, Amen." (Revelation of St. John 1:6.)

It is altogether correct in the translation. Now, you know that of late some malicious and corrupt men have sprung up and apostatized from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and they declare that the Prophet believes in a plurality of Gods; and, lo and behold! we have discovered a very great secret, they cry—"The Prophet says there are many Gods, and this proves that he has fallen."

* * * *

I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for the express purpose. I wish to declare I have always, and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders fifteen years. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a spirit; and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural; and who can contradict it? The text says—"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father." The Apostles have discovered that there were Gods above, for Paul says God was the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. My object was to preach the Scriptures, and preach the doctrine they contain, there being a God above the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ I am bold to declare. I have taught all the strong doctrines publicly, and always teach stronger doctrines in public than in private. John was one of the men, and the Apostles declare they were made kings and priests unto God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It reads just so in the Revelations. Hence, the doctrine of a plurality of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrine. It is all over the face of the Bible. It stands beyond the power of controversy. "A wayfaring man, though a fool, need not err therein."

* * * *

Paul says there are Gods many, and Lords many, * * but to us there is but one God—that is, pertaining to us; and he is in all and through all. But if Joseph Smith says there are Gods many, and Lords many, they cry:—"Away with him! Crucify him, crucify him!" * * * Paul, if Joseph Smith is a blasphemer, you are. I say there are Gods many, and Lords many, but to us only one; and we are to be in subjection to that one. * * * Some say I do not interpret the Scriptures the same as they do. They say it means the heathen's gods. Paul says there are Gods many, and Lords many; and that makes a plurality of Gods, in spite of the whims of all men. You know, and I testify, that Paul had no allusion to the heathen gods. I have it from God. * * * I have a witness of the Holy Ghost, and a testimony that Paul had no allusion to the heathen gods in the text.

I will show from the Hebrew Bible that I am correct, and the first word shows [the existence of] a plurality of Gods. * * * Berosheit baurau Eloheim ait aushamayeen vehau auraits, rendered by King James' translators, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." I want to analyze the word Berosheit: Rosh, the head; Sheit, a grammatical termination. The Baith was not originally put there when the inspired man wrote it, but it has been since added by a Jew. Baurau signifies to bring forth; Eloheim is from the word, Eloi, God, in the singular number; and by adding the word heim, it renders it Gods. It read first—"In the beginning the head of the Gods brought forth the Gods," or, as others have translated it—"The head of the Gods called the Gods together."

* * * *

The head God organized the heavens and the earth. * * * In the beginning the heads of the Gods organized the heavens and the earth. * * * * If we pursue the Hebrew text further it reads Berosheit baurau Eloheim ait aushamayeen vehau auraits.-"The head one of the Gods said, Let us make man in our own image." I once asked a learned Jew if the Hebrew language compels us to render all words ending in heim in the plural, why not render the first, Eloheim, plural? He replied, That is the rule with few exceptions; but in this case it would ruin the Bible. He acknowledged I was right.

* * * *

In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. * * * The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through—Gods. The head of the Gods appointed one God for us; and when you take a [this] view of the subject, it sets one free to see all the beauty, holiness, and perfection of all the Gods.

Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are only one God! I say that is a strange God, three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization. "Father, I pray not for the world; but I pray for them which thou hast given me." * * * * I want to read the text to you myself—"Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." I am agreed with the Father and the Father is agreed with me, and we are agreed as one. The Greek shows that it should be agreed.

"Father, I pray for them which thou hast given me out of the world, and not for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word, that they may all be agreed, as thou, Father, art agreed with me, and I with thee, that they also may be agreed with us," and all come to dwell in unity, and in all the glory and everlasting burnings of the Gods; and then we shall see as we are seen, and be as our God, and he is as his Father.

* * * *

I want to reason a little on this subject. I learned it by translating the [Egyptian] papyrus which is now in my house. I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the God of heaven. "In order to do that," said he, "suppose we have two facts: that supposes another fact may exist—two men on the earth, one wiser than the other, would logically show that another who is wiser than the wisest may exist. Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them." If Abraham reasoned thus—If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God, the Father of Jesus Christ, had a Father, you may suppose that he had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way: Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence, if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that he [that Father] had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. * * * Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as his Father had done before him. As the Father had done before, he laid down his life, and took it up the same as his Father had done before [him].

* * * *

They found fault with Jesus Christ because he said he was the Son of God, and made himself equal with God. * * * What did Jesus say, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are Gods? If he called them Gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the Scriptures cannot be broken, say ye of him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest, because I said I am the Son of God?" It was through him that they drank of the spiritual rock. * * * * Jesus, if they were called Gods unto whom the word of God came, why should it be thought blasphemy that I should say I am the Son of God?

* * * *

They who obtain a glorious resurrection from the dead are exalted far above principalities, powers, thrones, dominions, and angels, and are expressly declared to be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ, all having eternal power. The Scriptures are a mixture of very strange doctrines to the Christian world, who are blindly led by the blind. I will refer to another Scripture. "Now," says God, when he visited Moses in the bush, * * * "Thou shalt be a God unto the children of Israel." God said: "Thou shalt be a God unto Aaron, and he shall be thy spokesman." I believe those Gods that God reveals as Gods, to be sons of God, and all can cry Abba, Father! Sons of God who exalt themselves to be Gods, even from before the foundation of the world, and are the only Gods I have a reverence for. John said he was a king. "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." O thou God who art King of kings and Lord of lords, the sectarian world, by their actions, declare—"We cannot believe thee."

USE OF THE WORD ELOHIM.[A]

BY PROFESSOR W. H. CHAMBERLIN, OF THE BRIGHAM YOUNG COLLEGE, LOGAN, UTAH.

[Footnote A: During the progress of the discussion between the Rev. C. Van Der Donckt and myself, as published in the Improvement Era, Professor William H. Chamberlin of the Brigham Young College, Logan, Utah, contributed the following brief though valuable paper on the use of the word "Elohim" in the Bible, which by his kind consent I am permitted to publish here.]

Two words, El, of which Elim was the plural form, and Eloah, of which Elohim was the plural, were applied generally to Deity by the Hebrew people. All these forms are found in the other Semitic languages, and are, therefore, very ancient in origin.

Under severest discipline the people of Israel were educated in the school of monotheism, in order that God's nature might be revealed to man, and in order that unity might be introduced into the moral life of man. Under this discipline, the people of Israel must have learned to apply the plural form Elohim, which their fathers had used of Deity, in speaking of the one God whom they had been taught to serve.

The Hebrew language would allow them to do this, for a few nouns, when used by them in the plural, seemed to magnify the original idea. In such cases the plural form was treated grammatically as singular. An example may be found in Job 40:15, where the plural form behemoth is used to intensify the image of the animal there being described, as is shown by context. In the same verse, the behemoth is referred to by the singular pronoun he.

But the use of Elohim, in this sense, by the later writers of Israel, is not necessarily opposed to the view that in the earliest documents or writings which the Hebrews possessed, it was applied to a plurality of Gods.

The objection to this view has been made that, with the plural form Elohim, in Gen. 1, the singular verb is used. Such a use of a singular predicate with a plural subject is, however, common in Hebrew. On page 111 of Harper's Hebrew Syntax we find the following rule covering the case, viz: "When the predicate precedes the subject it may agree with the subject in number or it may assume the primary form, viz.: third masculine singular, whatever be the number of the following subject." So the plural form Elohim after a singular verb, the construction found in Gen. i, and elsewhere, is no proof that it is singular in any sense. Similar constructions are found with other words in Gen. i:14, where the singular of the verb haya, be, is followed by the plural noun meoroth, lights; in Gen. 41:50, where the singular verb yullodh, was born, is followed by the plural noun sheney banim, two sons; in Job 42:15, where the singular verb nimtsa, was found, is followed by the plural noun nashim, women. Many similar examples might be given to illustrate the rule.

That Elohim was used in the plural sense in Gen. 1, is shown in the 26th verse, where the Elohim in referring to themselves use the plural suffix, nu, our, twice; and they also use the plural form of the verb naaseh, let us make. Also in Gen. 11:7, where nerdhah, let us descend, and nabhlah, let us confuse, two verbs in the plural form, proceed from the mouth of God, In Gen 3:5. the plural construct participle, yodhe, knowers of, modifies the noun, Elohim, which therefore is also plural. It is just possible that this participle is predicated of the subject you, but the participle would then follow the finite verb, giving a very unusual construction for the early Hebrew writers. One such construction is, however, found in Gen. 4:17, "he became (one) building a city."

The thought of the possibility of God's having with him great associates was alive even to the time of Isaiah, as is shown in Isaiah 6:8, where Jehovah said, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Jehovah was a personal name applied to the Being who guided Israel, and afterwards lived on the earth as Jesus Christ. (III Nephi, 15:5, Doc. and Cov. sec. 110.) Probably few of the Jews were ever able to distinguish Jehovah from Elohim, as it was latterly used, i. e., in the singular sense, and so when late writers wrote down the portion of Genesis where the name of Jehovah began to be used, they placed next to it, for the same purpose for which we now place the marginal reading, the word Elohim. So we have in Gen. 2:4; 3:24, and in some other places, the expression Jehovah Elohim, translated the Lord God. The words were put together late in Israel's history when Elohim had come to be used in the singular; Jehovah Elohim meant Jehovah, i. e., God. Later the explanatory use of the word Elohim was forgotten, and the two words combined to apply to God. (See page 219 of Brown's Hebrew Lexicon, the most authoritative lexicon in English, for the above explanation.)

The use of the singular noun Eloah is almost confined to poetry. It is used in Psalm 18 and in Deut. 32. There is ground for saying that the Savior on the cross in crying out to his Father, used the singular form Eloah. In combining Eloah with the suffix i, meaning my, and expressing the result in Greek the h would be dropped, for there is no letter h in the Greek alphabet. A, which was merely introduced to assist the Hebrew to pronounce the h, would also be dropped. The result would give us Eloi, the form given in the basic gospel, in Mark 15:34. (See also Judges 5:5, of the Septuagint).

In the year 1830, we find Joseph Smith, in the face of the tradition of the whole world, daring to render the word Elohim in Gen i, et seq., in the plural. It is one great evidence of the divinity of the Church of Jesus Christ restored in these last days that its prophet said many things, in the day in which he lived, that a progressive people are beginning to appreciate as true; and so we find learned men sympathizing with the daring position taken above. With reference to Gen. 1:26, and similar passages, we find as one explanation in the lexicon mentioned above, a lexicon based on the work of Gesenius, the great German Hebrew scholar, that God was in consultation with angels. Now, since the term "angel," a term used loosely by the scholars, is made there to mean and refer to superhuman beings sufficiently advanced in intelligence to be included in a consultation with God, we have our prophet's explanation exactly. In conclusion I shall quote the words of the great Biblical scholar, the Rev. A. B. Davidson of Edinburgh, in explanation of the same: "The use of 'us' by the divine speaker (Gen. 1:26, 3:22, 11:17) is strange, but is perhaps due to his consciousness of being surrounded by other beings of a loftier order than men (Is. 5:8)." (See Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible, page 205.)

OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD.[A]

BY ELDER WILLIAM HENRY WHITTALL.

[Footnote A: Millennial Star Vol. xxiii No. 19, p. 292.]

In comparing the ideas of others with our own upon any subject, with a view of coming to a clear understanding and just conclusion on the points discussed, it is both important and necessary that a clear definition of terms be given and received. Most of the disputes which arise in all classes of society, religious and secular, would be avoided to a great extent, if the disputants clearly understood and attended to each other's terms, and clearly defined their own.

Words are frequently used in such different sense—sometimes primary, and sometimes secondary—sometimes literal, and sometimes figurative, that a misconception is often likely to arise, which might be easily prevented, were a plain definition of terms given at the outset. Opposite parties are too apt to place their own constructions on each other's expressions.

"Omnipresence" as all will admit means presence everywhere.

Now, strictly speaking, matter, in its most extensive and comprehensive sense, is the only thing that can be said to be literally everywhere. There are various kinds and degrees of matter; but matter as a whole, and in a general sense, is the only thing that we can conceive of as being everywhere present, and nowhere absent.

One reservation, however, must here be made, for the sake of scientific accuracy,—namely, that wherever matter exists and moves, there is of necessity a corresponding or proportionate extent of space wherein to move.

There is no such thing, however, in all the creations of God, as what is called empty space.

But this fact does not in the least affect our argument; for the motion of matter is merely the displacement of one thing by another—one particle occupying the space which had been previously occupied by another. Thus, if I thrust my hand into a mass of sand, I do not penetrate the grains of sand, (although I do penetrate the sand as a mass,) the hand merely going between, or making its way by displacing the grains with which it comes in contact. No particle of matter can occupy the same identical space as another at the same time; consequently, no portion of matter can in an exclusive and strictly literal sense be omnipresent.

The nearest approach to a literal omnipresence, that we can conceive of, is that of the particles of one kind and degree of matter commingling with those of another.

The following may serve as a simple illustration: In a homely cup of tea, we find the particles of the tea itself intimately mingling with those of the water; those of the sugar mingling with those of the other two elements; and then, again, there are the particles of caloric or heat everywhere present throughout the whole. Yet no one particle of either water, (itself a compound of gases), or tea, or sugar, or cream, can occupy the same space as any other particle. This simple illustration, however homely and commonplace, may serve as an example, on a small scale, of the nearest idea that can be formed of a literal omnipresence, or presence everywhere. The plainer the simile, the better for ease and clearness of thought.

We have now to define what we mean by the term "God."

This word, like many others, is frequently used to represent different ideas. We sometimes employ it in reference to Deity as a person. One of the old prophets saw God sitting on a throne. Of course, then, according to this personal sense of the word, God could not have been everywhere present; for he was on a throne. We often read of God as sitting down, standing up, walking about, &c. Now, a person, when sitting down, does not occupy the same space as when standing up. He always occupies the same amount of space, but no more, whatever posture he may place himself in, or however much he may change his relative positions by moving hither and thither.

Hence it is utterly impossible for God to be personally omnipresent.

But we sometimes speak of God in reference to his attributes of love, wisdom, goodness, influence, power, authority, &c.

The next question, then, is, Can he be said to be omnipresent in these respects?

Yes, undoubtedly so; but not literally.

As these are all abstract terms, it is evident that they cannot be used in a strictly literal sense. Love, power, goodness, wisdom, &c., are not things which occupy space. We cannot measure knowledge by the yard, wisdom by the pint, influence by the inch, or power by the gallon. We cannot speak of authority as occupying so many square or cubic feet of space, or describe the height, depth, length, or width of intelligence or faith. These are all abstract terms; and in describing the extent of any attribute of God or man, we are bound to speak figuratively. We thus speak of "infinite power," of "boundless love," of "illimitable wisdom," of "unbounded influence," of "unlimited authority," of "infinite goodness," &c. If we examine such expressions closely, we cannot but see that they are used in a relative and figurative sense, and not in a strictly literal one. We cannot find room for all these things everywhere. If one thing occupied all space literally, we certainly could not locate half a dozen everywhere! The absurdity of the thing only proves the fallacy of the idea of literal ubiquity in reference to any attribute, the terms, expressive of which cannot be literalized.

But again: We often speak of God in reference to his agents. For example, the Apostle Paul says, "No man taketh this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron." Moses, who called and ordained Aaron, was God's agent. All the servants of the Lord are called by his agents acting in his name and by his authority. When a man is called and ordained to certain functions of the Priesthood, we say that God called him, and that he is a servant of God. Thus, in a relative sense, God may be and is said to be present where he is personally absent, just as her Majesty the Queen may be said to be present throughout all her dominions by her official and representative agents. She is not literally, but virtually or officially, representatively or vicariously present wherever her regal authority is swayed. It is not actually she who is present, but her agents or authorities, who act in her name in her various principalities and colonies.

Again: We often use the term "God" in reference to his Spirit, whereby he is said to be omnipresent.

But we also frequently use the term "Spirit" in more sense than one. Sometimes we speak of the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost as a person. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three distinct persons,—the first two being personages of tabernacle, and the last a personage of spirit. In this sense the Spirit can be no more spatially extended, and no more omnipresent, than the Father or the Son. If, indeed, either of the three could be personally and substantially present everywhere—that is, filling all space, it would puzzle the astutest intellect to conceive where the other two could be located!

The spirit of God, then, or the Holy Ghost, as a personage, cannot be literally omnipresent, although we may (as we often do) speak of him as being present here and there by his influence, authority, and power.

But we also frequently speak of the Spirit of God as a divine substance or influence, of power diffused throughout the spiritual and physical universe, giving vitality, activity, and force to the various things around us, according to certain spiritual and natural laws.

It is, indeed, the inherent life and soul of all things—the inner and eternal principle of life and being. Whether we speak of "Nature" or of the "God of nature," we mean the same thing, unless, by way of distinction, we connect with the latter expression the idea of personality. In the former sense, God is everywhere.

President Young, upon this subject, says—"It is the Deity within us that causes increase. * * * He is in every person upon the face of the earth. The elements that every individual is made of and lives in possess the Godhead * * The Deity within us is the great principle that causes us to increase and to grow in grace and truth."

It will thus be evident that God is, by his Spirit, in this sense, omnipresent. Indeed, we arrive at the conclusion that God (although local in personality) may be said, in various ways and in different senses of the word, to be everywhere present. President Young says—"He is omnipotent, and fills immensity by his agents, by his influence, by his Spirit, and by his ministers." So that, go wheresoever we may, God is there, in some way or other. If we ascend to the heavens above, he is there; if we make the grave our bed, he is there; if we fly to any part of the earth or sea, he is there, and his providence will protect the just.

CHAPTER VI.

THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH'S VIEWS IN RELATION TO MAN AND THE PRIESTHOOD.

As in the "Mormon" doctrine of Deity discussed in these pages, man is an important factor, and as his relations to God, and the possibilities that are open to him in the never-ending future are a part of the discussion between the Reverend Mr. Van Der Donckt and myself, the following remarks of the Prophet respecting man and his relations to God, and the relationship of certain leading men to each other, in the several dispensations of the Gospel which have been given, cannot fail to be an interesting and instructive contribution to this chapter. The remarks under division I are taken from a discourse by the Prophet delivered in June, 1839, in answer to some inquiries concerning Priesthood. The Prophet's remarks under division I appear in the Millennial Star, vol. xvii, pages 310, 311. Those in division II are from an article on Priesthood prepared by the Prophet, and read by Robert B. Thompson at the general conference of the Church held at Nauvoo, October 5, 1840, and are to be found in the Millennial Star, vol xviii, pages 164, 165:

I.

The Priesthood was first given to Adam; he obtained the First Presidency, and held the keys of it from generation to generation. He obtained it in the creation, before the worlds were formed, as in Genesis 1:20, 26, 28. He had dominion given him over every living creature. He is Michael, the Archangel, spoken of in the Scriptures. Then to Noah, who is Gabriel; he stands next in authority to Adam in the Priesthood; he was called of God to this office, and was the Father of all living in his day, and to him was given the dominion. These men held keys first on earth, and then in heaven.

The Priesthood is an everlasting principle, and existed with God from eternity, and will to eternity, without beginning of days or end of years. The keys have to be brought from heaven whenever the Gospel is sent. When they are revealed from heaven it is by Adam's authority. Daniel 7 speaks of the Ancient of Days; he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael; he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given Him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family.

The spirit of man is not a created being; it existed from eternity, and will exist to eternity. Anything created cannot be eternal; and earth, water, etc., had their existence in an elementary state, from eternity. Our Savior speaks of children and says, their angels always stand before my Father. The Father called all spirits before him at the creation of man, and organized them. He (Adam) is the head, and was told to multiply. The keys were first given to him, and by him to others. He will have to give an account of his stewardship and they to him.

The Priesthood is everlasting. The Savior, Moses, and Elias, gave the keys to Peter, James, and John, on the mount, when He was transfigured before them. The Priesthood is everlasting—without beginning of days or end of years; without father, mother, etc. If there is no change of ordinance, there is no change of Priesthood. Wherever the ordinances of the Gospel are administered, there is the Priesthood.

How have we come at the Priesthood in the last days? It came down, in regular succession. Peter, James, and John had it given to them, and they gave it to others. Christ is the great High Priest: Adam next. Paul speaks of the Church coming to an innumerable company of angels—to God, the Judge of all—the spirits of just men made perfect; to Jesus, the Mediator of the new covenant, etc. (Heb. 3:23).

I saw Adam in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman. He called together his children and blessed them with a patriarchal blessing. The Lord appeared in their midst, and he (Adam) blessed them all, and foretold what should befall them to the latest generation. (See Doc. and Cov., sec. cvii: 53, 56.)

This is why Abraham blessed his posterity; he wanted to bring them into the presence of God. They looked for a city, etc. Moses sought to bring the children of Israel into the presence of God, through the power of the Priesthood, but he could not. In the first ages of the world they tried to establish the same thing; and there were Eliases raised up who tried to restore these very glories, but did not obtain them, but they prophesied of a day when this glory would be revealed. Paul spoke of the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times, when God would gather together all things in one, etc.; and those men to whom these keys have been given, will have to be there, and they without us cannot be made perfect.

These men are in heaven, but their children are on earth. Their bowels yearn over us. God sends down men for this reason (Matt. 13:41). And the Son of Man shall send forth his angels, etc. All these authoritative characters will come down and join hand in hand in bringing about this work.

II.

In order to investigate the subject of the Priesthood, so important to this as well as every succeeding generation, I shall proceed to trace the subject, as far as I possibly can, from the Old and New Testaments.

There are two Priesthoods spoken of in the Scripture, viz., the Melchizedek and the Aaronic or Levitical. Although there are two Priesthoods, yet the Melchisedek Priesthood comprehends the Aaronic or Levitical Priesthood, and is the grand head, and holds the highest authority which pertains to the Priesthood, and the keys of the Kingdom of God in all ages of the world to the latest posterity on the earth, and is the channel through which all knowledge, doctrine, the plan of salvation, and every important matter is revealed from heaven.

Its institution was prior to the "foundations of this earth, or the morning stars sang together, or the sons of God shouted for joy," and is the highest and holiest Priesthood, and is after the order of the Son of God, and all other Priesthoods are only parts, ramifications, powers, and blessings belonging to the same, and are held, controlled, and directed by it. It is the channel through which the Almighty commenced revealing his glory at the beginning of the creation of this earth, and through which he has continued to reveal himself to the children of men to the present time, and through which he will make known his purposes to the end of time.

Commencing with Adam, who was the first man, who is spoken of in Daniel as being the "Ancient of Days," or, in other words, the first and oldest of all, the great grand progenitor, of whom it is said in another place he is Michael, because he was the first and father of all, not only by progeny, but the first to hold the spiritual blessings, to whom was made known the plan of ordinances for the salvation of his posterity unto the end, and to whom Christ was first revealed, and through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven, and will continue to be revealed from henceforth. Adam holds the keys of the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times, i. e. the dispensation of all the times, have been and will be revealed through him from the beginning to Christ, and from Christ to the end of all the dispensations that are to be revealed: Ephesians, 1st chap., 9th and 10th verses—"Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: that in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in him."

Now the purpose in himself in the winding-up scene of the last dispensation is that all things pertaining to that dispensation should be conducted precisely in accordance with the preceding dispensations.

And again: God purposed in himself, that there should not be eternal fullness until every dispensation should be fulfilled and gathered together in one, and that all things whatsoever that should be gathered together in one in those dispensations unto the same fullness and eternal glory, should be in Christ Jesus; therefore he set the ordinances to be the same for ever, and set Adam to watch over them, to reveal them from heaven to man, or to send angels to reveal them: Hebrews 1:14—"Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister to those who shall be heirs of salvation?"

These angels are under the direction of Michael or Adam, who acts under the direction of the Lord. From the above quotation we learn that Paul perfectly understood the purposes of God in relation to his connection with man, and that glorious and perfect order which he established in himself, whereby he sent forth power, revelations, and glory.

God will not acknowledge that which he has not called, ordained, and chosen. In the beginning God called Adam by his own voice. See Genesis 3rd chap., 9th and 10th verses—"And the Lord called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked, and hid myself." Adam received commandments and instruction from God; this was the order from the beginning.

That he received revelations, commandments and ordinances at the beginning is beyond the power of controversy; else, how did they begin to offer sacrifices to God in an acceptable manner? And if they offered sacrifices they must be authorized by ordination. We read in Gen. 4th chap., 4th v., that Abel brought of the firstlings of the flock and the fat thereof, and the Lord had respect to Abel and to his offering. And again: Hebrews 11:4—"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and by it he being dead, yet speaketh." How doth he yet speak? Why, he magnified the Priesthood which was conferred upon him, and died a righteous man, and therefore has become an angel of God by receiving his body from the dead, holding still the keys of his dispensation; and was sent down from heaven unto Paul to minister consoling words, and to commit unto him a knowledge of the mysteries of Godliness.

And if this was not the case, I would ask, how did Paul know so much about Abel, and why should he talk about his speaking after he was dead? Hence, that he spoke after he was dead must be by being sent down out of heaven to administer.

This, then, is the nature of the Priesthood; every man holding the presidency of his dispensation, and one man holding the presidency of them all, even Adam; and Adam receiving his presidency and authority from the Lord, but cannot receive a fullness until Christ shall present the Kingdom to the Father, which shall be at the end of the last dispensation.

OF ADAM AND HIS RELATION TO THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH.

(From the Doctrine and Covenants.)

In March, 1832, the Lord gave a revelation to the Church commanding them to effect an organization for the betterment of their material condition, that the poor might be better cared for, and all the Saints be more equal in the possession of earthly things, and then adds:

That you may come up to the crown prepared for you, and be made rulers over many kingdoms, saith the Lord God, the Holy One of Zion, who hath established the foundations of Adam-ondi-Ahman; who hath appointed Michael your prince, and established his feet, and set him upon high, and given unto him the keys of salvation under the counsel and direction of the Holy One, who is without beginning of days or end of life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, ye are little children, and ye have not as yet understood how great blessings the Father hath in his own hands and prepared for you; and ye cannot bear all things now; nevertheless, be of good cheer, for I will lead you along; the kingdom is yours, and the blessings thereof are yours, and the riches of eternity are yours (Doc. and Gov., sec. 78:15-18).

Who the "Michael" here spoken of is, who is "appointed" our "prince," and unto whom the "keys of salvation are given under the counsel and direction of the Holy One," is made very plain afterwards in a revelation given March 28, 1835, from which I quote the following:

Three years previous to the death of Adam, he called Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, and Methuselah, who were all high priests, with the residue of his posterity who were righteous, into the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman, and there bestowed upon them his last blessing. And the Lord appeared unto them, and they rose up and blessed Adam, and called him Michael, the Prince, the Archangel. And the Lord administered comfort unto Adam, and said unto him, I have set thee to be at the head—a multitude of nations shall come of thee, and thou art a prince over them for ever. And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation, and notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation. These things were all written in the Book of Enoch, and are to be testified of in due time (Doc. and Cov., sec. 107:53-57).

From this it will appear that the Prophet Joseph Smith understood that Adam would stand at the head of his posterity in this earth; that he would be their Prince and hold the keys of salvation "under the counsel and direction of the Holy One, who is without beginning of days or end of life." Doubtless it was this which led the Prophet to say-after referring to the fact that the Lord said to Moses, "Thou shalt be a god unto the children of Israel," and again, "Thou shalt be a god unto Aaron, and he shall be thy spokesman"—it was these considerations, I repeat, which led the Prophet to say, "I believe those Gods that God reveals as Gods to be sons of God, and all can cry, 'Abba, Father!' sons of God, who exalted themselves to be Gods even before the foundation of the world, and are the only Gods I have a reverence for" (Discourse of June 16, 1844, Millennial Star, vol. xxiv, p. 140).

THE LIVING GOD.[A]

(From the Times and Seasons.)

[Footnote A: The article under this title, is an editorial in the "Times and Seasons," published at Nauvoo, Feb. 15, 1845, presumably written by the late President John Taylor, who, at the time it was written, was both editor and proprietor of the "Times and Seasons."]

There is no subject among men, that engrosses so much time and attention, and, at the same time, is so little understood, as the being, knowledge, substance, attributes, and disposition of the living God. In the first place, Christians and believers in Christianity, with a few exceptions, believe in one God; or, perhaps we should say, in their own language, that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are one God. But to be obedient unto the truth, we will not thus transgress upon reason, sense and revelation. It will then be necessary to treat the subject of the "Living God," in contradiction to a dead God, or, one that has "no body, parts or passions," and, perhaps it may be well enough to say at the outset, that "Mormonism" embraces a plurality of Gods, as the apostle said, there were "Gods many and Lords many." In doing which, we shall not deny the scripture that has been set apart for this world, and allow one God, even Jesus Christ, the very eternal Father of this earth; and, if Paul tells the truth—"by him the worlds were made."

It was probably alluded to by Moses, when the children of Israel were working out their salvation, with fear and trembling, in the wilderness, at the time that he spake these words: (Deut. 5:23-26.) "And it came to pass when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders. And ye said: Behold, the Lord our God hath showed us his glory, and greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire; we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth. Now, therefore, why should we die? For this great fire will consume us. If we hear the voice of the Lord our God any more, then we shall die. For who is there of all flesh, that had heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?"

* * * *

The first line of Genesis, purely translated from the original, excluding the first Baith (which was added by the Jews,) would read:—Rosheit (the head) baurau, (brought forth,) Eloheim (the Gods) ate (with) hah-shau-mahyiem (the heavens) veh-ate, (and with) hauaurates, (the earth.) In simple English, the Head brought forth the Gods, with the heavens and with the earth. The "Head" must have meant the "living God," or Head God; Christ is our head. The term "Eloheim," plural of Elohah, or ale, is used alike in the first chapter of Genesis, for the creation, and the quotation of Satan. In the second chapter, and fourth verse, we have this remarkable history: "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth, when they were brought forth; in the day that the Lord of the Gods made earth and heavens." The Hebrew reads so.

Truly Jesus Christ created the worlds, and is Lord of Lords, and, as the Psalmist said: "Judges among the Gods." Then Moses might have said with propriety, he is the "living God," and, Christ, speaking of the flesh could say: I am the Son of man; and, Peter, enlightened by the Holy Ghost: Thou art the Son of the Living God, meaning our Father in heaven, who is the Father of all spirits, and who, with Jesus Christ, his first begotten son and the Holy Ghost, are one in power, one in dominion, and one in glory, constituting the first presidency of this system, and this eternity. But they are as much three distinct persons as the sun, moon, and earth are three different bodies.

Again, the "twelve kingdoms," which are under the above mentioned presidency of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are governed by the same rules, and destined to the same honor (Book Doc. & Cov. p. 135, sec. 13). For "Behold, I will liken these kingdoms unto a man having a field, and he sent forth his servants into the field, to dig in the field; and he said unto the first, go ye and labor in the field, and in the first hour I will come unto you, and ye shall behold the joy of my countenance; and he said unto the second, go ye also into the field, and in the second hour I will visit you with the joy of my countenance; and also unto the third, saying, I will visit you: and unto the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth."

Without going into the full investigation of the history and excellency of God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, in this article, let us reflect that Jesus Christ, as Lord of Lords, and King of Kings, must have a noble race in the heavens, or upon the earth, or else he can never be as great in power, dominion, might, and authority, as the scriptures declare. But hear; the mystery is solved. John says (Rev. 14:1,) "And I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."

Their Father's name, bless me! that is GOD! Well done for Mormonism; one hundred and forty-four thousand Gods, among the tribes of Israel, and, two living Gods and the Holy Ghost, for this world! Such knowledge is too wonderful for men, unless they possess the spirit of Gods. It unravels the little mysteries, which, like a fog, hides the serene atmosphere of heaven, and looks from world to world; from system to system; from universe to universe, and from eternity to eternity, where, in each and all, there is a presidency of Gods, and Gods many, and Lords many; and, from time to time, or from eternity to eternity, Jesus Christ shall bring in another world, regulated and saved as this will be, when he delivers it up to the Father; and God becomes all in all. "And," as John the Revelator says (22:3, 4): "there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him, and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."

"His name in their foreheads," undoubtedly means "God" on the front of their crowns; for, when all things are created new, in the celestial kingdom, the servants of God, the innumerable multitude are crowned, and, are perfect men and women in the Lord, one in glory, one in knowledge, and one in image; they are like Christ, and he is like God; then, O, then, they are all "Living Gods," having passed from death unto life, and possess the power of eternal lives!

MATERIALITY.[A]

(From the "Prophet.")

[Footnote A: This article on the nature of God, man, and angels appears in the editorial columns of the "Prophet" for May 24, 1845. The "Prophet" was published in New York and Boston, and at the time of the appearance of this article Elder Parley P. Pratt was the editor, and hence it was doubtless written by him.]

God, the Father, is material.

Jesus Christ is material.

Angels are material.

Spirits are material.

Men are material.

The universe is material.

Space is full of materiality.

Nothing exists which is not material.

The elementary principles of the material universe are eternal; they never originated from nonentity, and they never can be annihilated.

Immateriality is but another name for nonentity—it is the negative of all things, and beings—of all existence.

There is not one particle of proof to be advanced to establish its existence. It has no way to manifest itself to any intelligence in heaven or on earth. Neither God, angels nor men, could positively conceive of such a substance, being or thing. It possesses no property or power by which to make itself manifest, to any intelligent being in the universe, reason and analogy never scan it, or even conceive of it. Revelation never reveals it, nor do any of our senses witness its existence. It cannot be seen, heard, tasted, or smelled, even by the strongest organs, or of the most acute sensibilities. It is neither liquid or solid, soft or hard,—it can neither extend nor contract. In short, it can exert no influence whatever—it can neither act, nor be acted upon. And even if it does exist, it is of no possible use. It possesses no one desirable property, faculty or use, yet, strange to say, "Immateriality" is the modern Christian's God, his anticipated heaven, his immortal self—his all.

O sectarianism! O atheism!! O annihilation!!! Who can perceive the nice shades of difference between the one and the other? They seem alike all but in name. The atheist has no God.

The sectarian has a God without body or parts. Who can define the difference? for our part we do not perceive a difference of a single hair; they both claim to be the negative of all things which exist—and both are equally powerless and unknown.

The atheist has no after life, or conscious existence beyond the grave.

The sectarian has one, but it is immaterial like his God; and without body or parts. Here again both are negative, and both are at the same point. Their faith and hope amount to the same, only they are expressed by different terms.

Again, the atheist has no heaven in eternity.

The sectarian has one, but it is immaterial in all its proprieties, and is therefore the negative of all riches in substance. Here again they are equal, and arrive at the same point.

As we do not envy them the possession of all they claim, we will now leave them in the quiet and undisturbed enjoyment of the same and proceed to examine the portion still left for the "poor Mormons" to enjoy.

What is God? He is a material intelligence, possessing both body and parts. He is in the form of man, and is in fact of the same species; and is a model, or standard of perfection to which man is destined to attain: he being the great Father, and head of the whole family.

He can go, come, converse, reason, eat, drink, love, hate, rejoice, possess and enjoy. He can also travel space with all the ease and intelligence necessary, for moving from planet to planet, and from system to system.

This being cannot occupy two distinct places at once. Therefore, he cannot be (in person) everywhere present. For evidence and illustration of this God, and his personal powers, and attributes, we refer to the scriptures of the Old and New Testament which speak substantially of his body, parts, passions, powers, and of his conversing, walking, eating, drinking, etc.; for instance, his taking dinner with Abraham.

What is Jesus Christ? He is the son of God, and is every way like his father, being "the brightness of his father's glory, and the express image of his person." He is material intelligence, with body, parts and passions; possessing immortal flesh and immortal bones. He can and does eat, drink, converse, reason, love, move, go, come, and in short, perform all things even as the Father—possessing the same power and attributes. And he, too, can travel space, and go from world to world, and from system to system, precisely like the Father; but cannot occupy two places at once.

What are angels? They are intelligences of the human species. Many of them are offsprings of Adam and Eve. That is they are men, who have, like Enoch or Elijah, been translated; or, like Jesus Christ, been raised from the dead; consequently they possess a material body of flesh and bones, can eat, drink, walk, converse, reason, love, fight, wrestle, sing, or play on musical instruments. They can go or come on foreign missions, in heaven, earth, or hell; and they can travel space, and visit the different worlds, with all the ease and alacrity with which God and Christ do the same, being possessed of similar organizations, powers and attributes in a degree.

What are spirits? They are material intelligences, possessing body and parts in the likeness of the temporal body; but not composed of flesh and bones, but of some substance less tangible to our gross senses in our present life; but tangible to those in the same element as themselves. In short they are men in embrio—intelligences waiting to come into the natural world and take upon them flesh and bones, that through birth, death, and the resurrection they may also be perfected in the material organization. Such was Jesus Christ, and such were we before we came into this world, and such we will be again, in the intervening space between death and the resurrection.

What are men? They are offspring of God, the Father, and brothers of Jesus Christ. They were once intelligent spirits in the presence of God, and were with him before the earth was formed. They are now in disguise as it were, in order to pass through the several changes, and the experience necessary to constitute them perfect beings.

They are capable of receiving intelligence and exaltation to such a degree, as to be raised from the dead with a body like that of Jesus Christ's, and to possess immortal flesh and bones, in which they will eat, drink, converse, reason, love, walk, sing, play on musical instruments, go on missions from planet to planet, or from system to system: being Gods, or sons of God, endowed with the same powers, attributes, and capacities that their heavenly Father and Jesus Christ possess.

What are all these beings taken together, or summed up under one head? They are one great family, all of the same species, all related to each other, all bound together by kindred ties, interests sympathies, and affections. In short they are all Gods; or rather, men are the offspring or children of the Gods, and destined to advance by degrees, and to make their way by a progressive series of changes, till they become like their Father in heaven, and like Jesus Christ their elder brother.

Thus perfected, the whole family will possess the material universe, that is, the earth, and all other planets, and worlds, as "an inheritance incorruptible undefiled and that fadeth not away." They will also continue to organize, people, redeem, and perfect other systems which are now in the womb of chaos, and thus go on increasing their several dominions, till the weakest child of God which now exists upon the earth will possess more dominion, more property, more subjects, and more power and glory than is possessed by Jesus Christ or by his Father; while at the same time Jesus Christ and his Father, will have their dominion, kingdoms, and subjects increased in proportion.

Such are the riches, glories, blessings, honors, thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers, held out by the system of materialism.

Such the wealth, the dignity, the nobility, the titles and honors to which "Mormons" aspire. Such the promises of him whose word can never fail.

With these hopes and prospects before us, we say to the Christian world, who hold to immateriality, that they are welcome to their God—their life—their heaven, and their all.

They claim nothing but that which we throw away, and we claim nothing but that which they throw away. Therefore, there is no ground for quarrel, or contention between us.