with instruments of torture.

Now France is not entirely under Catholic control,
and yet she is by far the most prosperous nation in
Europe. I saw, only the other day, a letter from a
Protestant bishop, in which he states that there are
only about a million Protestants in France, and only
four or five millions of Catholics, and admits, in a
very melancholy way, that thirty-four or thirty-five
millions are Freethinkers. The bishop is probably
mistaken in his figures, but France is the best housed,
the best fed, the best clad country in Europe.

Only a little while ago, France was overrun, trampled
into the very earth, by the victorious hosts of Ger-
many, and France purchased her peace with the
savings of centuries. And yet France is now rich and
prosperous and free, and Germany poor, discontented

332

and enslaved. Hundreds and thousands of Germans,
unable to find liberty at home, are coming to the
United States.

I admit that England is a Christian country. Any
doubts upon this point can be dispelled by reading
her history—her career in India, what she has done
in China, her treatment of Ireland, of the American
Colonies, her attitude during our Civil war; all these
things show conclusively that England is a Christian
nation.

Religion has filled Great Britain with war. The
history of the Catholics, of the Episcopalians, of
Cromwell—all the burnings, the maimings, the brand-
ings, the imprisonments, the confiscations, the civil
wars, the bigotry, the crime—show conclusively that
Great Britain has enjoyed to the full the blessings of
"our most holy religion."

Of course, Mr. Talmage claims the United States
as a Christian country. The truth is, our country is
not as Christian as it once was. When heretics were
hanged in New England, when the laws of Virginia
and Maryland provided that the tongue of any man
who denied the doctrine of the Trinity should be
bored with hot iron,, and that for the second offence
he should suffer death, I admit that this country was

333

Christian. When we engaged in the slave trade,
when our flag protected piracy and murder in every
sea, there is not the slightest doubt that the United
States was a Christian country. When we believed
in slavery, and when we deliberately stole the labor
of four millions of people; when we sold women
and babes, and when the people of the North
enacted a law by virtue of which every Northern
man was bound to turn hound and pursue a human
being who was endeavoring to regain his liberty, I
admit that the United States was a Christian nation.
I admit that all these things were upheld by the Bible
—that the slave trader was justified by the Old Testa-
ment, that the bloodhound was a kind of missionary
in disguise, that the auction block was an altar, the
slave pen a kind of church, and that the whipping-
post was considered almost as sacred as the cross.
At that time, our country was a Christian nation.

I heard Frederick Douglass say that he lectured
against slavery for twenty years before the doors
of a single church were opened to him. In New
England, hundreds of ministers were driven from
their pulpits because they preached against the
crime of human slavery. At that time, this country
was a Christian nation.

334

Only a few years ago, any man speaking in favor
of the rights of man, endeavoring to break a chain
from a human limb, was in danger of being mobbed
by the Christians of this country. I admit that Dela-
ware is still a Christian State. I heard a story about
that State the other day.

About fifty years ago, an old Revolutionary soldier
applied for a pension. He was asked his age, and he
replied that he was fifty years old. He was told that
if that was his age, he could not have been in the
Revolutionary War, and consequently was not en-
titled to any pension. He insisted, however, that he
was only fifty years old. Again they told him that
there must be some mistake. He was so wrinkled,
so bowed, had so many marks of age, that he must
certainly be more than fifty years old. "Well," said
the old man, "if I must explain, I will: I lived forty
"years in Delaware; but I never counted that time,
"and I hope God won't."

The fact is, we have grown less and less Christian
every year from 1620 until now, and the fact is that
we have grown more and more civilized, more and
more charitable, nearer and nearer just.

Mr. Talmage speaks as though all the people in
what he calls the civilized world were Christians. Ad-

335

mitting this to be true, I find that in these countries
millions of men are educated, trained and drilled to
kill their fellow Christians. I find Europe covered
with forts to protect Christians from Christians, and
the seas filled with men-of-war for the purpose of
ravaging the coasts and destroying the cities of Chris-
tian nations. These countries are filled with prisons,
with workhouses, with jails and with toiling, ignorant
and suffering millions. I find that Christians have
invented most of the instruments of death, that
Christians are the greatest soldiers, fighters, de-
stroyers. I find that every Christian country is taxed
to its utmost to support these soldiers; that every
Christian nation is now groaning beneath the grievous
burden of monstrous debt, and that nearly all these
debts were contracted in waging war. These bonds,
these millions, these almost incalculable amounts,
were given to pay for shot and shell, for rifle and
torpedo, for men-of-war, for forts and arsenals, and
all the devilish enginery of death. I find that each
of these nations prays to God to assist it as against
all others; and when one nation has overrun, ravaged
and pillaged another, it immediately returns thanks
to the Almighty, and the ravaged and pillaged kneel
and thank God that it is no worse.

336

Mr. Talmage is welcome to all the evidence he can
find in the history of what he is pleased to call the
civilized nations of the world, tending to show the
inspiration of the Bible.

And right here it may be well enough to say again,
that the question of inspiration can not be settled by
the votes of the superstitious millions. It can not be
affected by numbers. It must be decided by each
human being for himself. If every man in this world,
with one exception, believed the Bible to be the in-
spired word of God, the man who was the exception
could not lose his right to think, to investigate, and to
judge for himself.

Question. You do not think, then, that any of the
arguments brought forward by Mr. Talmage for the
purpose of establishing the inspiration of the Bible,
are of any weight whatever?

Answer. I do not. I do not see how it is possible
to make poorer, weaker or better arguments than he
has made.

Of course, there can be no "evidence" of the in-
spiration of the Scriptures. What is "inspiration"?
Did God use the prophets simply as instruments?
Did he put his thoughts in their minds, and use their

337

hands to make a record? Probably few Christians
will agree as to what they mean by "inspiration."
The general idea is, that the minds of the writers of
the books of the Bible were controlled by the divine
will in such a way that they expressed, independently
of their own opinions, the thought of God. I believe it
is admitted that God did not choose the exact words,
and is not responsible for the punctuation or syntax.
It is hard to give any reason for claiming more for
the Bible than is claimed by those who wrote it.
There is no claim of "inspiration" made by the writer
of First and Second Kings. Not one word about the
author having been "inspired" is found in the book
of Job, or in Ruth, or in Chronicles, or in the Psalms,
or Ecclesiastes, or in Solomon's Song, and nothing is
said about the author of the book of Esther having
been "inspired." Christians now say that Matthew,
Mark, Luke and John were "inspired" to write the
four gospels, and yet neither Mark, nor Luke, nor
John, nor Matthew claims to have been "inspired."
If they were "inspired," certainly they should have
stated that fact. The very first thing stated in each
of the gospels should have been a declaration by the
writer that he had been "inspired," and that he was
about to write the book under the guidance of God,

338

and at the conclusion of each gospel there should
have been a solemn statement that the writer had
put down nothing of himself, but had in all things
followed the direction and guidance of the divine
will. The church now endeavors to establish the
inspiration of the Bible by force, by social ostracism,
and by attacking the reputation of every man who
denies or doubts. In all Christian countries, they
begin with the child in the cradle. Each infant is
told by its mother, by its father, or by some of its
relatives, that "the Bible is an inspired book." This
pretended fact, by repetition "in season and out of
"season," is finally burned and branded into the
brain to such a degree that the child of average
intelligence never outgrows the conviction that the
Bible is, in some peculiar sense, an "inspired" book.
The question has to be settled for each generation.
The evidence is not sufficient, and the foundation of
Christianity is perpetually insecure. Beneath this great
religious fabric there is no rock. For eighteen centu-
ries, hundreds and thousands and millions of people
have been endeavoring to establish the fact that the
Scriptures are inspired, and since the dawn of science,
since the first star appeared in the night of the
Middle Ages, until this moment, the number of

339

people who have doubted the fact of inspiration
has steadily increased. These doubts have not been
born of ignorance, they have not been suggested by
the unthinking. They have forced themselves upon
the thoughtful, upon the educated, and now the ver-
dict of the intellectual world is, that the Bible is not
inspired. Notwithstanding the fact that the church
has taken advantage of infancy, has endeavored to
control education, has filled all primers and spelling-
books and readers and text books with superstition—
feeding all minds with the miraculous and super-
natural, the growth toward a belief in the natural
and toward the rejection of the miraculous has been
steady and sturdy since the sixteenth century. There
has been, too, a moral growth, until many passages
in the Bible have become barbarous, inhuman and
infamous. The Bible has remained the same, while
the world has changed. In the light of physical and
moral discovery, "the inspired volume" seems in
many respects absurd. If the same progress is made
in the next, as in the last, century, it is very easy to
predict the place that will then be occupied by the
Bible. By comparing long periods of time, it is easy
to measure the advance of the human race. Com-
pare the average sermon of to-day with the average

340

sermon of one hundred years ago. Compare what
ministers teach to-day with the creeds they profess
to believe, and you will see the immense distance
that even the church has traveled in the last century.

The Christians tell us that scientific men have
made mistakes, and that there is very little certainty
in the domain of human knowledge. This I admit.
The man who thought the world was flat, and who
had a way of accounting for the movement of the
heavenly bodies, had what he was pleased to call a
philosophy. He was, in his way, a geologist and an
astronomer. We admit that he was mistaken; but
if we claimed that the first geologist and the first
astronomer were inspired, it would not do for us to
admit that any advance had been made, or that any
errors of theirs had been corrected. We do not
claim that the first scientists were inspired. We do
not claim that the last are inspired. We admit that
all scientific men are fallible. We admit that they do
not know everything. We insist that they know but
little, and that even in that little which they are sup-
posed to know, there is the possibility of error. The
first geologist said: "The earth is flat." Suppose
that the geologists of to-day should insist that that
man was inspired, and then endeavor to show that

341

the word "flat," in the "Hebrew," did not mean
quite flat, but just a little rounded; what would we
think of their honesty? The first astronomer in-
sisted that the sun and moon and stars revolved
around this earth—that this little earth was the centre
of the entire system. Suppose that the astronomers
of to-day should insist that that astronomer was in-
spired, and should try to explain, and say that he
simply used the language of the common people, and
when he stated that the sun and moon and stars re-
volved around the earth, he merely meant that they
"apparently revolved," and that the earth, in fact,
turned over, would we consider them honest men?
You might as well say that the first painter was in-
spired, or that the first sculptor had the assistance of
God, as to say that the first writer, or the first book-
maker, was divinely inspired. It is more probable
that the modern geologist is inspired than that the an-
cient one was, because the modern geologist is nearer
right. It is more probable that William Lloyd Gar-
rison was inspired upon the question of slavery than
that Moses was. It is more probable that the author
of the Declaration of Independence spoke by divine
authority than that the author of the Pentateuch did.
In other words, if there can be any evidence of

342

"inspiration," it must lie in the fact of doing or
saying the best possible thing that could have been
done or said at that time or upon that subject.

To make myself clear: The only possible evidence
of "inspiration" would be perfection—a perfection ex-
celling anything that man unaided had ever attained.
An "inspired" book should excel all other books; an
inspired statue should be the best in this world; an in-
spired painting should be beyond all others. If the Bible
has been improved in any particular, it was not, in that
particular, ''inspired." If slavery is wrong, the Bible is
not inspired. If polygamy is vile and loathsome, the
Bible is not inspired. If wars of extermination are cruel
and heartless, the Bible is not "inspired." If there is
within that book a contradiction of any natural fact; if
there is one ignorant falsehood, if there is one mistake,
then it is not "inspired." I do not mean mistakes that
have grown out of translations; but if there was in
the original manuscript one mistake, then it is not
"inspired." I do not demand a miracle; I do not
demand a knowledge of the future; I simply demand
an absolute knowledge of the past. I demand an ab-
solute knowledge of the then present; I demand a
knowledge of the constitution of the human mind—
of the facts in nature, and that is all I demand.

343

Question. If I understand you, you think that all
political power should come from the people; do you
not believe in any "special providence," and do you
take the ground that God does not interest himself
in the affairs of nations and individuals?

Answer. The Christian idea is that God made the
world, and made certain laws for the government of
matter and mind, and that he never interferes except
upon special occasions, when the ordinary laws fail to
work out the desired end. Their notion is, that the
Lord now and then stops the horses simply to show
that he is driving. It seems to me that if an infinitely
wise being made the world, he must have made it
the best possible; and that if he made laws for the
government of matter and mind, he must have made
the best possible laws. If this is true, not one of
these laws can be violated without producing a posi-
tive injury. It does not seem probable that infinite
wisdom would violate a law that infinite wisdom had
made.

Most ministers insist that God now and then in-
terferes in the affairs of this world; that he has not
interfered as much lately as he did formerly. When
the world was comparatively new, it required alto-
gether more tinkering and fixing than at present.

344

Things are at last in a reasonably good condition,
and consequently a great amount of interference is
not necessary. In old times it was found necessary fre-
quently to raise the dead, to change the nature of fire
and water, to punish people with plagues and famine,
to destroy cities by storms of fire and brimstone, to
change women into salt, to cast hailstones upon
heathen, to interfere with the movements of our
planetary system, to stop the earth not only, but
sometimes to make it turn the other way, to arrest
the moon, and to make water stand up like a wall.
Now and then, rivers were divided by striking them
with a coat, and people were taken to heaven in
chariots of fire. These miracles, in addition to curing
the sick, the halt, the deaf and blind, were in former
times found necessary, but since the "apostolic age,"
nothing of the kind has been resorted to except in
Catholic countries. Since the death of the last
apostle, God has appeared only to members of the
Catholic Church, and all modern miracles have been
performed for the benefit of Catholicism. There is
no authentic account of the Virgin Mary having ever
appeared to a Protestant. The bones of Protestant
saints have never cured a solitary disease. Protest-
ants now say that the testimony of the Catholics can

345

not be relied upon, and yet, the authenticity of every
book in the New Testament was established by Cath-
olic testimony. Some few miracles were performed
in Scotland, and in fact in England and the United
States, but they were so small that they are hardly
worth mentioning. Now and then, a man was struck
dead for taking the name of the Lord in vain. Now
and then, people were drowned who were found in
boats on Sunday. Whenever anybody was about to
commit murder, God has not interfered—the reason
being that he gave man free-will, and expects to hold
him accountable in another world, and there is no
exception to this free-will doctrine, but in cases
where men swear or violate the Sabbath. They are
allowed to commit all other crimes without any in-
terference on the part of the Lord.

My own opinion is, that the clergy found it neces-
sary to preserve the Sabbath for their own uses, and
for that reason endeavored to impress the people
with the enormity of its violation, and for that purpose
gave instances of people being drowned and suddenly
struck dead for working or amusing themselves on that
day. The clergy have objected to any other places of
amusement except their own, being opened on that
day. They wished to compel people either to go to

346

church or stay at home. They have also known
that profanity tended to do away with the feelings
of awe they wished to cultivate, and for that reason
they have insisted that swearing was one of the most
terrible of crimes, exciting above all others the wrath
of God.

There was a time when people fell dead for having
spoken disrespectfully to a priest. The priest at that
time pretended to be the visible representative of
God, and as such, entitled to a degree of reverence
amounting almost to worship. Several cases are
given in the ecclesiastical history of Scotland where
men were deprived of speech for having spoken
rudely to a parson.

These stories were calculated to increase the im-
portance of the clergy and to convince people that
they were under the special care of the Deity. The
story about the bears devouring the little children
was told in the first place, and has been repeated
since, simply to protect ministers from the laughter
of children. There ought to be carved on each side
of every pulpit a bear with fragments of children in
its mouth, as this animal has done so much to protect
the dignity of the clergy.

Besides the protection of ministers, the drowning

347

of breakers of the Sabbath, and striking a few people
dead for using profane language, I think there is no
evidence of any providential interference in the affairs
of this world in what may be called modern times.
Ministers have endeavored to show that great calam-
ities have been brought upon nations and cities as a
punishment for the wickedness of the people. They
have insisted that some countries have been visited
with earthquakes because the people had failed to
discharge their religious duties; but as earthquakes
happened in uninhabited countries, and often at sea,
where no one is hurt, most people have concluded
that they are not sent as punishments. They have
insisted that cities have been burned as a punish-
ment, and to show the indignation of the Lord, but
at the same time they have admitted that if the
streets had been wider, the fire departments better
organized, and wooden buildings fewer, the design
of the Lord would have been frustrated.

After reading the history of the world, it is some-
what difficult to find which side the Lord is really on.
He has allowed Catholics to overwhelm and de-
stroy Protestants, and then he has allowed Protestants
to overwhelm and destroy Catholics. He has allowed
Christianity to triumph over Paganism, and he allowed

348

Mohammedans to drive back the hosts of the cross
from the sepulchre of his son. It is curious that this
God would allow the slave trade to go on, and yet
punish the violators of the Sabbath. It is simply
wonderful that he would allow kings to wage cruel
and remorseless war, to sacrifice millions upon the
altar of heartless ambition, and at the same time
strike a man dead for taking his name in vain. It is
wonderful that he allowed slavery to exist for centu-
ries in the United States; that he allows polygamy
now in Utah; that he cares nothing for liberty in
Russia, nothing for free speech in Germany, nothing
for the sorrows of the overworked, underpaid millions
of the world; that he cares nothing for the innocent
languishing in prisons, nothing for the patriots con-
demned to death, nothing for the heart-broken
widows and orphans, nothing for the starving, and
yet has ample time to note a sparrow's fall. If he
would only strike dead the would-be murderers; if
he would only palsy the hands of husbands' uplifted
to strike their wives; if he would render speechless
the cursers of children, he could afford to overlook
the swearers and breakers of his Sabbath.

For one, I am not satisfied with the government
of this world, and I am going to do what little I can

349

to make it better. I want more thought and less
fear, more manhood and less superstition, less prayer
and more help, more education, more reason, more
intellectual hospitality, and above all, and over all,
more liberty and kindness.

Question. Do you think that God, if there be one,
when he saves or damns a man, will take into con-
sideration all the circumstances of the man's life?

Answer. Suppose that two orphan boys, James
and John, are given homes. James is taken into a
Christian family and John into an infidel. James
becomes a Christian, and dies in the faith. John be-
comes an infidel, and dies without faith in Christ.
According to the Christian religion, as commonly
preached, James will go to heaven, and John to hell.

Now, suppose that God knew that if James had
been raised by the infidel family, he would have died
an infidel, and that if John had been raised by the
Christian family, he would have died a Christian.
What then? Recollect that the boys did not choose
the families in which they were placed.

Suppose that a child, cast away upon an island in
which he found plenty of food, grew to manhood;
and suppose that after he had reached mature years,

350

the island was visited by a missionary who taught a
false religion; and suppose that this islander was con-
vinced that he ought to worship a wooden idol; and
suppose, further, that the worship consisted in sacri-
ficing animals; and suppose the islander, actuated
only by what he conceived to be his duty and by
thankfulness, sacrificed a toad every night and every
morning upon the altar of his wooden god; that
when the sky looked black and threatening he sacri-
ficed two toads; that when feeling unwell he sacrificed
three; and suppose that in all this he was honest, that
he really believed that the shedding of toad-blood
would soften the heart of his god toward him? And
suppose that after he had become fully-convinced
of the truth of his religion, a missionary of the
"true religion" should visit the island, and tell the
history of the Jews—unfold the whole scheme of
salvation? And suppose that the islander should
honestly reject the true religion? Suppose he should
say that he had "internal evidence" not only, but
that many miracles had been performed by his god,
in his behalf; that often when the sky was black
with storm, he had sacrificed a toad, and in a few
moments the sun was again visible, the heavens blue,
and without a cloud; that on several occasions, having

351

forgotten at evening to sacrifice his toad, he found
himself unable to sleep—that his conscience smote
him, he had risen, made the sacrifice, returned to his
bed, and in a few moments sunk into a serene and
happy slumber? And suppose, further, that the man
honestly believed that the efficacy of the sacrifice
depended largely on the size of the toad? Now
suppose that in this belief the man had died,—what
then?

It must be remembered that God knew when the
missionary of the false religion went to the island;
and knew that the islander would be convinced of the
truth of the false religion; and he also knew that the
missionary of the true religion could not, by any
possibility, convince the islander of the error of his
way; what then?

If God is infinite, we cannot speak of him as
making efforts, as being tired. We cannot con-
sistently say that one thing is easy to him, and
another thing is hard, providing both are possible.
This being so, why did not God reveal himself to
every human being? Instead of having an inspired
book, why did he not make inspired folks? Instead
of having his commandments put on tables of stone,
why did he not write them on each human brain?

352

Why was not the mind of each man so made that
every religious truth necessary to his salvation was
an axiom?

Do we not know absolutely that man is greatly
influenced by his surroundings? If Mr. Talmage
had been born in Turkey, is it not probable that
he would now be a whirling Dervish? If he had
first seen the light in Central Africa, he might now
have been prostrate before some enormous serpent;
if in India, he might have been a Brahmin, running a
prayer-machine; if in Spain, he would probably have
been a priest, with his beads and holy water. Had
he been born among the North American Indians,
he would speak of the "Great Spirit," and solemnly
smoke the the pipe of peace.

Mr. Talmage teaches that it is the duty of children
to perpetuate the errors of their parents; conse-
quently, the religion of his parents determined his
theology. It is with him not a question of reason,
but of parents; not a question of argument, but of
filial affection. He does not wish to be a philoso-
pher, but an obedient son. Suppose his father had
been a Catholic, and his mother a Protestant,—what
then? Would he show contempt for his mother by
following the path of his father; or would he show

353

disrespect for his father, by accepting the religion of
his mother; or would he have become a Protestant
with Catholic proclivities, or a Catholic with Protest-
ant leanings? Suppose his parents had both been
infidels—what then?

Is it not better for each one to decide honestly for
himself? Admitting that your parents were good and
kind; admitting that they were honest in their views,
why not have the courage to say, that in your opinion,
father and mother were both mistaken? No one can
honor his parents by being a hypocrite, or an intellectu-
al coward. Whoever is absolutely true to himself, is
true to his parents, and true to the whole world. Who-
ever is untrue to himself, is false to all mankind. Re-
ligion must be an individual matter. If there is a God,
and if there is a day of judgment, the church that a man
belongs to will not be tried, but the man will be tried.

It is a fact that the religion of most people was made
for them by others; that they have accepted certain
dogmas, not because they have examined them, but
because they were told that they were true. Most of
the people in the United States, had they been born in
Turkey, would now be Mohammedans, and most of
the Turks, had they been born in Spain, would now
be Catholics.

354

It is almost, if not quite, impossible for a man to
rise entirely above the ideas, views, doctrines and re-
ligions of his tribe or country. No one expects to
find philosophers in Central Africa, or scientists
among the Fejees. No one expects to find philoso-
phers or scientists in any country where the church
has absolute control.

If there is an infinitely good and wise God, of
course he will take into consideration the surround-
ings of every human being. He understands the
philosophy of environment, and of heredity. He
knows exactly the influence of the mother, of all
associates, of all associations. He will also take into
consideration the amount, quality and form of each
brain, and whether the brain was healthy or diseased.
He will take into consideration the strength of the
passions, the weakness of the judgment. He will
know exactly the force of all temptation—what was
resisted. He will take an account of every effort
made in the right direction, and will understand
all the winds and waves and quicksands and shores
and shallows in, upon and around the sea of every
life.

My own opinion is, that if such a being exists, and
all these things are taken into consideration, we will

355

be absolutely amazed to see how small the difference
is between the "good" and the "bad." Certainly
there is no such difference as would justify a being
of infinite wisdom and benevolence in rewarding one
with eternal joy and punishing the other with eternal
pain.

Question. What are the principal reasons that
have satisfied you that the Bible is not an inspired
book?

Answer. The great evils that have afflicted this
world are:

First. Human slavery—where men have bought
and sold their fellow-men—sold babes from mothers,
and have practiced) every conceivable cruelty upon
the helpless.

Second. Polygamy—an institution that destroys
the home, that treats woman as a simple chattel, that
does away with the sanctity of marriage, and with all
that is sacred in love.

Third. Wars of conquest and extermination—
by which nations have been made the food of the
sword.

Fourth. The idea entertained by each nation that
all other nations are destitute of rights—in other

356

words, patriotism founded upon egotism, prejudice,
and love of plunder.

Fifth. Religious persecution.

Sixth. The divine right of kings—an idea that
rests upon the inequality of human rights, and insists
that people should be governed without their con-
sent; that the right of one man to govern another
comes from God, and not from the consent of the
governed. This is caste—one of the most odious
forms of slavery.

Seventh. A belief in malicious supernatural be-
ings—devils, witches, and wizards.

Eighth. A belief in an infinite being who or-
dered, commanded, established and approved all
these evils.

Ninth. The idea that one man can be good for
another, or bad for another—that is to say, that one
can be rewarded for the goodness of another, or
justly punished for the sins of another.

Tenth. The dogma that a finite being can commit
an infinite sin, and thereby incur the eternal dis-
pleasure of an infinitely good being, and be justly
subjected to eternal torment.

My principal objection to the Bible is that it sus-
tains all of these ten evils—that it is the advocate of

357

human slavery, the friend of polygamy; that within
its pages I find the command to wage wars of ex-
termination; that I find also that the Jews were
taught to hate foreigners—to consider all human
beings as inferior to themselves; I also find persecu-
tion commanded as a religious duty; that kings were
seated upon their thrones by the direct act of God,
and that to rebel against a king was rebellion against
God. I object to the Bible also because I find within
its pages the infamous spirit of caste—I see the sons
of Levi set apart as the perpetual beggars and
governors of a people; because I find the air filled
with demons seeking to injure and betray the sons
of men; because this book is the fountain of modern
superstition, the bulwark of tyranny and the fortress
of caste. This book also subverts the idea of justice
by threatening infinite punishment for the sins of a
finite being.

At the same time, I admit—as I always have ad-
mitted—that there are good passages in the Bible—
good laws, good teachings, with now and then a true
line of history. But when it is asserted that every
word was written by inspiration—that a being of in-
finite wisdom and goodness is its author,—then
I raise the standard of revolt.

358

Question. What do you think of the declaration
of Mr. Talmage that the Bible will be read in heaven
throughout all the endless ages of eternity?

Answer. Of course I know but very little as to
what is or will be done in heaven. My knowledge
of that country is somewhat limited, and it may be
possible that the angels will spend most of their time
in turning over the sacred leaves of the Old Testa-
ment. I can not positively deny the statement of the
Reverend Mr. Talmage as I have but very little idea
as to how the angels manage to kill time.

The Reverend Mr. Spurgeon stated in a sermon
that some people wondered what they would do
through all eternity in heaven. He said that, as for
himself, for the first hundred thousand years he
would look at the wound in one of the Savior's
feet, and for the next hundred thousand years he
would look at the wound in his other foot, and
for the next hundred thousand years he would
look at the wound in one of his hands, and for
the next hundred thousand years he would look at
the wound in the other hand, and for the next
hundred thousand years he would look at the wound
in his side.

Surely, nothing could be more delightful than this

359

A man capable of being happy in such employment,
could of course take great delight in reading even
the genealogies of the Old Testament. It is very
easy to see what a glow of joy would naturally over-
spread the face of an angel while reading the history
of the Jewish wars, how the seraphim and cherubim
would clasp their rosy palms in ecstasy over the fate
of Korah and his company, and what laughter would
wake the echoes of the New Jerusalem as some one
told again the story of the children and the bears;
and what happy groups, with folded pinions, would
smilingly listen to the 109th Psalm.

[Illustration: 371]

An orthodox "state of mind"





THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.

As Mr. Talmage delivered the series of sermons
referred to in these interviews, for the purpose
of furnishing arguments to the young, so that they
might not be misled by the sophistry of modern
infi-delity, I have thought it best to set forth,
for use in Sunday schools, the pith and marrow of
what he has been pleased to say, in the form of



A SHORTER CATECHISM.

Question. Who made you?

Answer. Jehovah, the original Presbyterian.

Question. What else did he make?

Answer. He made the world and all things.

Question. Did he make the world out of nothing?

Answer. No.

Question. What did he make it out of?

Answer. Out of his "omnipotence." Many infidels
have pretended that if God made the universe, and if
there was nothing until he did make it, he had nothing
to make it out of. Of course this is perfectly absurd
when we remember that he always had his "omnipo-
tence and that is, undoubtedly, the material used.

364

Question. Did he create his own "omnipotence"?

Answer. Certainly not, he was always omnipo-
tent.

Question. Then if he always had "omnipotence,"
he did not "create" the material of which the uni-
verse is made; he simply took a portion of his
"omnipotence" and changed it to "universe"?

Answer. Certainly, that is the way I under-
stand it.

Question. Is he still omnipotent, and has he as
much "omnipotence" now as he ever had?

Answer. Well, I suppose he has.

Question. How long did it take God to make the
universe?

Answer. Six "good-whiles."

Question. How long is a "good-while"?

Answer. That will depend upon the future dis-
coveries of geologists. "Good-whiles" are of such
a nature that they can be pulled out, or pushed up;
and it is utterly impossible for any infidel, or scien-
tific geologist, to make any period that a "good-while"
won't fit.

Question. What do you understand by "the
"morning and evening" of a "good-while"?

Answer. Of course the words "morning and

365

"evening" are used figuratively, and mean simply
the beginning and the ending, of each "good-while."

Question. On what day did God make vegetation?

Answer. On the third day.

Question. Was that before the sun was made?

Answer. Yes; a "good-while" before.

Question. How did vegetation grow without sun-
light?

Answer. My own opinion is, that it was either
"nourished by the glare of volcanoes in the moon
or "it may have gotten sufficient light from rivers
"of molten granite;" or, "sufficient light might have
"been emitted by the crystallization of rocks." It
has been suggested that light might have been fur-
nished by fire-flies and phosphorescent bugs and
worms, but this I regard as going too far.

Question. Do you think that light emitted by
rocks would be sufficient to produce trees?

Answer. Yes, with the assistance of the "Aurora
"Borealis, or even the Aurora Australis;" but with
both, most assuredly.

Question. If the light of which you speak was
sufficient, why was the sun made?

Answer. To keep time with.

Question. What did God make man of?

366

Answer. He made man of dust and "omnipo-
"tence."

Question. Did he make a woman at the same
time that he made a man?

Answer. No; he thought at one time to avoid
the necessity of making a woman, and he caused all
the animals to pass before Adam, to see what he
would call them, and to see whether a fit companion
could be found for him. Among them all, not one
suited Adam, and Jehovah immediately saw that he
would have to make an help-meet on purpose.

Question. What was woman made of?

Answer. She was made out of "man's side, out of
his right side," and some more "omnipotence." Infi-
dels say that she was made out of a rib, or a bone, but
that is because they do not understand Hebrew.

Question. What was the object of making woman
out of man's side?

Answer. So that a young man would think more
of a neighbor's girl than of his own uncle or grand-
father.

Question. What did God do with Adam and Eve
after he got them done?

Answer. He put them into a garden to see what
they would do.

367

Question. Do we know where the Garden of Eden
was, and have we ever found any place where a
"river parted and became into four heads"?

Answer. We are not certain where this garden
was, and the river that parted into four heads cannot
at present be found. Infidels have had a great deal
to say about these four rivers, but they will wish
they had even one, one of these days.

Question. What happened to Adam and Eve in
the garden?

Answer. They were tempted by a snake who was
an exceedingly good talker, and who probably came
in walking on the end of his tail. This supposition
is based upon the fact that, as a punishment, he was
condemned to crawl on his belly. Before that time,
of course, he walked upright.

Question. What happened then?

Answer. Our first parents gave way, ate of the
forbidden fruit, and in consequence, disease and
death entered the world. Had it not been for this,
there would have been no death and no disease.
Suicide would have been impossible, and a man
could have been blown into a thousand atoms by
dynamite, and the pieces would immediately have
come together again. Fire would have refused to

368

burn and water to drown; there could have been no
hunger, no thirst; all things would have been equally
healthy.

Question. Do you mean to say that there would
have been no death in the world, either of animals,
insects, or persons?

Answer. Of course.

Question. Do you also think that all briers and
thorns sprang from the same source, and that had
the apple not been eaten, no bush in the world
would have had a thorn, and brambles and thistles
would have been unknown?

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Would there have been no poisonous
plants, no poisonous reptiles?

Answer. No, sir; there would have been none;
there would have been no evil in the world if Adam
and Eve had not partaken of the forbidden fruit.

Question. Was the snake who tempted them to
eat, evil?

Answer. Certainly. '

Question. Was he in the world before the for-
bidden fruit was eaten?

Answer. Of course he was; he tempted them to
eat it

369

Question. How, then, do you account for the fact
that, before the forbidden fruit was eaten, an evil
serpent was in the world?

Answer. Perhaps apples had been eaten in other
worlds.

Question. Is it not wonderful that such awful con-
sequences flowed from so small an act?

Answer. It is not for you to reason about it; you
should simply remember that God is omnipotent.
There is but one way to answer these things, and
that is to admit their truth. Nothing so puts the
Infinite out of temper as to see a human being
impudent enough to rely upon his reason. The
moment we rely upon our reason, we abandon God,
and try to take care of ourselves. Whoever relies
entirely upon God, has no need of reason, and
reason has no need of him.

Question. Were our first parents under the im-
mediate protection of an infinite God?

Answer. They were.

Question. Why did he not protect them? Why
did he not warn them of this snake? Why did he
not put them on their guard? Why did he not
make them so sharp, intellectually, that they could
not be deceived? Why did he not destroy that

370

snake; or how did he come to make him; what did
he make him for?

Answer. You must remember that, although God
made Adam and Eve perfectly good, still he was very
anxious to test them. He also gave them the power
of choice, knowing at the same time exactly what they
would choose, and knowing that he had made them
so that they must choose in a certain way. A being
of infinite wisdom tries experiments. Knowing ex-
actly what will happen, he wishes to see if it will.

Question. What punishment did God inflict upon
Adam and Eve for the sin of having eaten the for-
bidden fruit?

Answer. He pronounced a curse upon the woman,
saying that in sorrow she should bring forth children,
and that her husband should rule over her; that she,
having tempted her husband, was made his slave;
and through her, all married women have been de-
prived of their natural liberty. On account of the
sin of Adam and Eve, God cursed the ground, saying
that it should bring forth thorns and thistles, and
that man should eat his bread in sorrow, and that he
should eat the herb of the field.

Question. Did he turn them out of the garden
because of their sin?

371

Answer. No. The reason God gave for turning
them out of the garden was: "Behold the man is
"become as one of us, to know good and evil; and
"now, lest he put forth his hand and take of the
"tree of life and eat and live forever, therefore, the
"Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden
"to till the ground from whence he was taken."

Question. If the man had eaten of the tree of life,
would he have lived forever?

Answer. Certainly.

Question. Was he turned out to prevent his
eating?

Answer. He was.

Question. Then the Old Testament tells us how we
lost immortality, not that we are immortal, does it?

Answer. Yes; it tells us how we lost it.

Question. Was God afraid that Adam and Eve
might get back into the garden, and eat of the fruit
of the tree of life?

Answer. I suppose he was, as he placed "cher-
"ubim and a flaming sword which turned every
"way to guard the tree of life."

Question. Has any one ever seen any of these
cherubim?

Answer. Not that I know of.

372

Question. Where is the flaming sword now?

Answer. Some angel has it in heaven.

Question. Do you understand that God made
coats of skins, and clothed Adam and Eve when
he turned them out of the garden?

Answer. Yes, sir.